Is it time to end Atlasia?

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

While I assume the usual suspects will chime in, with the usual responses... I've been thinking a lot more about this than I should of late. Fundamentally, this game used to have a few "warlords" but it seems there are too many, whose focus is on "winning", usually to the detriment of this game. The problem being no one really knows what constitutes "winning".

I've said before that TNF is someone I respect, I don't agree with him on very much, but TNF and his aggressive views are not the issue here. I do genuinely think that what made Atlasia "work" for most of its history has been needing to build coalitions and work together. Now, this isn't some kind of idealistic view of the past, a LOT of people said really nasty things about each other and still got stuff done.

I do think the collapse of the centre as a political force has hurt the game. I know the left in particular will be pained by this, but to me, this is a big deal. You didn't have as many voters in the past, but you certainly had a more engaged political element. Is it worth having lots of voters in your party, if you can't fill satisfactorily fill the roles we have. 

I do think people need to seriously look at what they want out of this game and what they have to offer. I've never before been supportive of a reset, but now... I'm feeling it might be necessary. This is not something that has emerged over the past month, so those who think so, need to really examine the course we've been travelling... this has been a long time in the making.

You contradict yourself. On the one hand you said this has been slowly building ing general, but then say "Atlasia has gotten along even whilst name calling occured" before. That is precisely my point, the loss of active players, especially on the right but not just on that side, has been building in numbers over time and a good number of people have often cited the tone. Absolving those who have caused this (it is not TNF alone by any means) ignores this very real reality and perhaps you have that luxury. You didn't have the luxury of "exit" PMs sent to you before people marched off to deregister.

It is also the easiest thing in the world to spot. Voluntary game, deregistration is immediate save for during elections. It doesn't take a lot to realize, that throwing a toxic environment into that could become catastrophic has little byl ittle players have said they have had enough.

It's not contradictory at all. They are not mutually exclusive, it's addressing two different issues, well one and one side-issues. The reality is, that in the past, people have been really bitchy and nasty to each other and still got stuff done, because it was necessary to work together to do it. People are certainly much more openly antagonistic than in the past and that's representative of the issue of the lack of a central core.

The other issue is that this situation has indeed been building for a long time, and yes, it does have something to do with the personalities being larger, more bombastic, less interested in compromise etc. But it's also about the fundamental issues about what this place is, what it's about and what is left to do?

[windjammer]

While I assume the usual suspects will chime in, with the usual responses... I've been thinking a lot more about this than I should of late. Fundamentally, this game used to have a few "warlords" but it seems there are too many, whose focus is on "winning", usually to the detriment of this game. The problem being no one really knows what constitutes "winning".

You mean these official "moderates" who end up voting for an inactive trot over a moderate laborite?

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

While I assume the usual suspects will chime in, with the usual responses... I've been thinking a lot more about this than I should of late. Fundamentally, this game used to have a few "warlords" but it seems there are too many, whose focus is on "winning", usually to the detriment of this game. The problem being no one really knows what constitutes "winning".

You mean these official "moderates" who end up voting for an inactive trot over a moderate laborite?

See what I mean?

I'm not here to defend anyone's vote, including my own. I'm merely highlighting what I think the issues are. It's a far more fundamental set of issues that some isolated cases.

[Classic Conservative]

In its current form, yes, but I believe we need a constitutional convention to solve our problems and start again from the beginning. There's nothing left to do already we've solved every problem on the book. WE NEED A RESTART!!! JOIN US SIGN OUR PETITION FOR A CONSTUTIONAL CONVENTION.

[TNF]

I still find it funny that Mr. Holds Office for 5 years and then gets voted out but decides to run again five minutes later is calling me the problem with Atlasia. The problem is that a few old bogeys become the nexus for the entire game because of its sh**t structure, and then never retire. Did I stay in the Senate for too long? Probably so. I was there for two years. But at least I had the good sense to retire. North Carolina Yankee will be in the Senate in 2025 if nothing drastic is done to fix this game now. (And hopefully if that's the case he's the only one playing, quoting the Federalist Papers and debating himself on legislation to ban immigration or whatever loony ideas he has coming down the pipe)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

While I assume the usual suspects will chime in, with the usual responses... I've been thinking a lot more about this than I should of late. Fundamentally, this game used to have a few "warlords" but it seems there are too many, whose focus is on "winning", usually to the detriment of this game. The problem being no one really knows what constitutes "winning".

I've said before that TNF is someone I respect, I don't agree with him on very much, but TNF and his aggressive views are not the issue here. I do genuinely think that what made Atlasia "work" for most of its history has been needing to build coalitions and work together. Now, this isn't some kind of idealistic view of the past, a LOT of people said really nasty things about each other and still got stuff done.

I do think the collapse of the centre as a political force has hurt the game. I know the left in particular will be pained by this, but to me, this is a big deal. You didn't have as many voters in the past, but you certainly had a more engaged political element. Is it worth having lots of voters in your party, if you can't fill satisfactorily fill the roles we have. 

I do think people need to seriously look at what they want out of this game and what they have to offer. I've never before been supportive of a reset, but now... I'm feeling it might be necessary. This is not something that has emerged over the past month, so those who think so, need to really examine the course we've been travelling... this has been a long time in the making.

You contradict yourself. On the one hand you said this has been slowly building ing general, but then say "Atlasia has gotten along even whilst name calling occured" before. That is precisely my point, the loss of active players, especially on the right but not just on that side, has been building in numbers over time and a good number of people have often cited the tone. Absolving those who have caused this (it is not TNF alone by any means) ignores this very real reality and perhaps you have that luxury. You didn't have the luxury of "exit" PMs sent to you before people marched off to deregister.

It is also the easiest thing in the world to spot. Voluntary game, deregistration is immediate save for during elections. It doesn't take a lot to realize, that throwing a toxic environment into that could become catastrophic has little byl ittle players have said they have had enough.

It's not contradictory at all. They are not mutually exclusive, it's addressing two different issues, well one and one side-issues. The reality is, that in the past, people have been really bitchy and nasty to each other and still got stuff done, because it was necessary to work together to do it. People are certainly much more openly antagonistic than in the past and that's representative of the issue of the lack of a central core.

The other issue is that this situation has indeed been building for a long time, and yes, it does have something to do with the personalities being larger, more bombastic, less interested in compromise etc. But it's also about the fundamental issues about what this place is, what it's about and what is left to do?

Deregistration was also not available until about two years ago. People had to fall off the rolls first and that took three and one time four elections (up to eight months) to cool off and resume paritcipation after a hiatus missing an election or two. It was annoying but present reality throughout the existance of the RPP era. Now during the Feds, they deregister and most do not return.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I still find it funny that Mr. Holds Office for 5 years and then gets voted out but decides to run again five minutes later is calling me the problem with Atlasia. The problem is that a few old bogeys become the nexus for the entire game because of its sh**t structure, and then never retire. Did I stay in the Senate for too long? Probably so. I was there for two years. But at least I had the good sense to retire. North Carolina Yankee will be in the Senate in 2025 if nothing drastic is done to fix this game now. (And hopefully if that's the case he's the only one playing, quoting the Federalist Papers and debating himself on legislation to ban immigration or whatever loony ideas he has coming down the pipe)

I am calling you a problem because your actions have caused people to litteraly not want to play the game. I welcomed a respectful debate and discussion. I welcomed challengers and enjoyed my contested races where the campaigning was active and fun. How many opponents did you call fascist? I never did that to SPC, Seatown, Hashy, Maxwell or Hagrid. You bitch about me citing Federalist Papers and stuff, but that is because you hated having someone challenge you and your extremism. In spite of that I was willing to work with you on issues where we had common ground. I think that speaks volumes.

So you want to destroy Atlasia, to get rid of me (Yet they say I am nuts )? I took a stept back from leading parties after dissolution. I watched chairmen come and ago. I considered running once because the direction looked dire after rimjob, but Maxwell and Tmth did a good job and I decided not to. Tmth resigned and no one stepped forward to take the position except for Devin. I didn't exactly have much choice.

I was twice defeated for PPT and I voluntary left the position another time, supporting Snowguy for it instead (which is probably why he hated me for a year or so after that ). I didn't run when bgwah retired and instead let Marokai have it since he did well the first time. He went inactive and few were interested. In the position, I was reluctant to step aside with such a large queue and twice decided agaisnt retiring because of that reason and as I said before, it is a thankless task and most were happy to not have to deal with it. Then you came along and I was told "I had to keep running lest you won". In hindsight, I should have ignored the queue size and let Franzl have it in November 2012. Some people approached me about being Speaker this time, I declined.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

So you want to destroy Atlasia, to get rid of me

ok solarstorm

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

So you want to destroy Atlasia, to get rid of me

ok solarstorm

Damn I should have expropriated the volcano bit there. That would be hilarious.

Why do you want to drop Atlasia into a volcano?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Because lava makes for fertile soil.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I still find it funny that Mr. Holds Office for 5 years and then gets voted out but decides to run again five minutes later is calling me the problem with Atlasia. The problem is that a few old bogeys become the nexus for the entire game because of its sh**t structure, and then never retire. Did I stay in the Senate for too long? Probably so. I was there for two years. But at least I had the good sense to retire. North Carolina Yankee will be in the Senate in 2025 if nothing drastic is done to fix this game now. (And hopefully if that's the case he's the only one playing, quoting the Federalist Papers and debating himself on legislation to ban immigration or whatever loony ideas he has coming down the pipe)

I am calling you a problem because your actions have caused people to litteraly not want to play the game. I welcomed a respectful debate and discussion. I welcomed challengers and enjoyed my contested races where the campaigning was active and fun. How many opponents did you call fascist? I never did that to SPC, Seatown, Hashy, Maxwell or Hagrid. You bitch about me citing Federalist Papers and stuff, but that is because you hated having someone challenge you and your extremism. In spite of that I was willing to work with you on issues where we had common ground. I think that speaks volumes.

So you want to destroy Atlasia, to get rid of me (Yet they say I am nuts )? I took a stept back from leading parties after dissolution. I watched chairmen come and ago. I considered running once because the direction looked dire after rimjob, but Maxwell and Tmth did a good job and I decided not to. Tmth resigned and no one stepped forward to take the position except for Devin. I didn't exactly have much choice.

I was twice defeated for PPT and I voluntary left the position another time, supporting Snowguy for it instead (which is probably why he hated me for a year or so after that ). I didn't run when bgwah retired and instead let Marokai have it since he did well the first time. He went inactive and few were interested. In the position, I was reluctant to step aside with such a large queue and twice decided agaisnt retiring because of that reason and as I said before, it is a thankless task and most were happy to not have to deal with it. Then you came along and I was told "I had to keep running lest you won". In hindsight, I should have ignored the queue size and let Franzl have it in November 2012. Some people approached me about being Speaker this time, I declined.

Respectfully Yankee, there is much, much more to those of us who feel this game has either run its course, or needs a significant re-direction.

You know the amount of time and effort I have put into this game, and I wouldn't do it, unless it was something I saw as worthwhile. We need a serious debate that puts personal views/goals/issues to one side. We all came here for one reason or another, it doesn't hurt to re-asses that.

None of us own this game, it doesn't matter if you've been here 10 years or 10 days. But again, this isn't and SHOULDN'T be about any individual or what they want. It should be what all of us can agree is the best and correct path forward.

Again - what has hurt this game is NOT people like TNF being melodramatic. I can trace when this game started to falter, it's a lot further back than that.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Again - what has hurt this game is NOT people like TNF being melodramatic. I can trace when this game started to falter, it's a lot further back than that.

I never said it was the factor or the primary factor. I said it was a problem, not the problem. But it is undeniable the impact that people like them with their tone has had on the game.

You know the amount of time and effort I have put into this game, and I wouldn't do it, unless it was something I saw as worthwhile. We need a serious debate that puts personal views/goals/issues to one side. We all came here for one reason or another, it doesn't hurt to re-asses that.

That is not whati s happening here though. We see this mind numbing campaign for the destruction of Altasia and then maybe we get a rebirth afterwards with preactically every thread trying to wrap Atlasia and its failures around my neck. It doesn't look like they are puting their personal goals aside at all here. It looks a lot like the effort made to pin the clusterbungle Senate rules on me when 95% of them were written before I joined the game and I ended up voting to replace them last year. But it has only gotten worse, the lies bigger and the smear campaigns more aggressive with each issue. Ironically, it is the same really fing old people with their newer followers, with the same years old grudges, yet they get a pass and I am suppose to eat the bs?

Atlasia does not need issues to be put aside. It needs campaigns focused on issues to foster respectfull discourse and encourage debate and competition. It needs a legislative reboot so as to provide issues to be debated and some of them have to be left for the regions to handle exclusively. The game also needs an active GM to provide consequences for legislative actions. That makes for more sense for an elections simulator and is for more coherent then any proposal coming out of the blow it up first rimjob 2.0 crowd.

[Prince of Salem]

No

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I also assisted Xahar  in attempt to end the game with AKM and destruction of inactive region's all under the nose first labor's president,

Teehehehehe. Finally public. You deserved far better Marokai then these "friends".

which could have been a catalyst to improvement of devoted legislator's lives as well as made the game easier for newbies to digest.

You know it never ceases to amaze me the depths of arrogance to which one can reach in an echo chamber. You will never understand my life or the impact this game has had on it. I am not bushie, hence why you will never know, but lets just say it hasn't been a negative.

Unlike Yankee(and to lesser degree TNF) I realized that the non-election part of the game is terrible and must be destroyed(or at least at regional level, since that's almost 6x as much work and takes a sh!tlo@d of time. Anyway I suggest you guys createa Foundation and start over with the election part of the game, and have a few devoted legislators seek therapy  and/or other pursuits in life.

It is terrible because there is no dynamic quality to it. You can legislate into the wind and nothing happens, hence why the statutes are an impenetrable thicket and no one can digest it newbie or otherwise. I will say though, that as someone who has pushing for a legislative restart for over a fing year, I cannot understand for the life of me why this is being laid at my feet.

I think the ones obsessed with destroying someone else in a fantasy game need far more therapy than anyone else here.

[Türkisblau]

Yankee needs a life? NEWS AT 10

[Prince of Salem]

Yankee needs a life? NEWS AT 10

Well, this has obviously not gone personal

[Foucaulf]

Sometimes it's good to look at what's working. I think the Northeast is humming along well, certainly so compared to everywhere else. They have enough people to contest elections and their residents actually communicate with each other.

My hot take on the issue is a lack of communication throughout this game. With more and more zombies in the game, actual conversation only go so far as a GOTV PM. Hell, it seems rare for even legislators and members of government to figure out what's going on with each other. When I say communicate, I actually mean communicate - not arguing at each other with talking points.

I don't really care either way if the boards vanish tomorrow, since I haven't had much free time to dedicate to the game since February. I can predict that the more space for blabbering you put in this game, the more it'll turn off the few still active in it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Yankee needs a life? NEWS AT 10

I have more life then most of the people claiming I need to get one.

[Türkisblau]

Yankee needs a life? NEWS AT 10

Well, this has obviously not gone personal

Yankee knows I like yanking his chain

obviously it's not 100% joking but yeah

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Yankee needs a life? NEWS AT 10

Well, this has obviously not gone personal

Yankee knows I like yanking his chain

obviously it's not 100% joking but yeah

So you drawing even for this quarter?

[Хahar 🤔]

Speaking as one of the few people who actually remembers this, all of it is correct:

But mostly the people it alienates are idiots. Let's be clear here: the moronic yelping for 'REGIONAL RIGHTS' was the moment at which the game embarked upon the path that led to its decrepitude.

Anyway, the game was started as an elections sim, not a government one. When it was at its best the elections were at the heart of it: and they were fun. Long ago and far away. Look what thou hath wrought, Atlasians.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Anyway, the game was started as an elections sim, not a government one. When it was at its best the elections were at the heart of it: and they were fun. Long ago and far away. Look what thou hath wrought, Atlasians.

Well, nobody can possibly deny that elections are the very backbone of this game. We've had a series of boring and uncompetitive elections, but just recently we've had a close at-large race, so this problem still can be fixed. It's a long way, but it's not definitively broken.

I'm not around in Atlasia as long as you are, so you obviously know what you're talking about, but let me ask this: would that be possible to have a continuing election game without at least some government simulation at the same time? I don't see how. Such a simulation, among other things, allows us to produce our unique issues. Otherwise how diffrent would Atlasia be from any election simulation game?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I remember it being debated a few years back. Some actually suggested that we should get rid of the elections sim and go all government based simulator, which was foolish just as doing the opposite is.

You must have something to make the elections worthwhile. Otherwise, they are just popularity contests and typically those end up being both personal and nasty, and not the sought that will long attract and keep active players. Parties existed before anything else in Atlasia as many of the actual old timers say repeatedly. What are parties suppose to exist for if there is no ideas, or laws to be discussed, no "ideological preference for governing" to be promoted?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Maybe we're looking at the wrong direction. People say "Atlasia was more interesting 11 years ago". Well, no wonder. 11 years ago it was a novelty, now it's an old thing. We can reset this but would the game become as novel as when it was created like 11 years never passed? Doubt that.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Maybe we're looking at the wrong direction. People say "Atlasia was more interesting 11 years ago". Well, no wonder. 11 years ago it was a novelty, now it's an old thing. We can reset this but would the game become as novel as when it was created like 11 years never passed? Doubt that.

The interest just isn't there. We have the same people playing this game, for the most part, that played it years ago. A lot of the active people here were around for the JCP/RPP days and before. Being new and breaking in is difficult.

How do we change that? I don't know.