Muslim Leaders Waging Theological Battle with the Islamic State

[Frodo]

Risking their lives in the process:

Muslim Leaders Wage Theological Battle, Stoking ISIS’ Anger

By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
MAY 8, 2016

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[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

This is, as predicted, being tossed aside, of course.  Doesn't fit the narrative.

[dead0man]

This is, as predicted, being tossed aside, of course.  Doesn't fit the narrative.

How does this video fit into the narrative?

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

This is, as predicted, being tossed aside, of course.  Doesn't fit the narrative.

How does this video fit into the narrative?

This is from a Salafist organization based in Norway.  I'm not sure what relevance it bears to the OP.

[All Along The Watchtower]

This is, as predicted, being tossed aside, of course.  Doesn't fit the narrative.

How does this video fit into the narrative?

It fits into the narrative of you (and others, to be fair) of seeing what you want to see re: Muslims quite nicely.

[ingemann]

This is, as predicted, being tossed aside, of course.  Doesn't fit the narrative.

It's not because of the "narrative" it's; once burned twice shy.

Also there's three narratives; the one which pretend there's no problem with Muslims and it's always the fault of others. One which blame Muslims for everything and at last one who don't care whose fault it is, but seek solutions.

The first offer no solutions, while the latter two tries to find solutions, but tend to disagre on them. Most "pro-Muslims" on this board belong to the first one, who are more busy pointing fingers at the West's "narrative". While most people on this board who are critical of Muslims belong to the last. The blame Muslims for everything is relative rare here.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

This is, as predicted, being tossed aside, of course.  Doesn't fit the narrative.

It's not because of the "narrative" it's; once burned twice shy.

Also there's three narratives; the one which pretend there's no problem with Muslims and it's always the fault of others. One which blame Muslims for everything and at last one who don't care whose fault it is, but seek solutions.

The first offer no solutions, while the latter two tries to find solutions, but tend to disagre on them. Most "pro-Muslims" on this board belong to the first one, who are more busy pointing fingers at the West's "narrative". While most people on this board who are critical of Muslims belong to the last. The blame Muslims for everything is relative rare here.

Really?

[ingemann]

This is, as predicted, being tossed aside, of course.  Doesn't fit the narrative.

It's not because of the "narrative" it's; once burned twice shy.

Also there's three narratives; the one which pretend there's no problem with Muslims and it's always the fault of others. One which blame Muslims for everything and at last one who don't care whose fault it is, but seek solutions.

The first offer no solutions, while the latter two tries to find solutions, but tend to disagre on them. Most "pro-Muslims" on this board belong to the first one, who are more busy pointing fingers at the West's "narrative". While most people on this board who are critical of Muslims belong to the last. The blame Muslims for everything is relative rare here.

Really?

Yes really.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

This is, as predicted, being tossed aside, of course.  Doesn't fit the narrative.

It's not because of the "narrative" it's; once burned twice shy.

Also there's three narratives; the one which pretend there's no problem with Muslims and it's always the fault of others. One which blame Muslims for everything and at last one who don't care whose fault it is, but seek solutions.

The first offer no solutions, while the latter two tries to find solutions, but tend to disagre on them. Most "pro-Muslims" on this board belong to the first one, who are more busy pointing fingers at the West's "narrative". While most people on this board who are critical of Muslims belong to the last. The blame Muslims for everything is relative rare here.

Really?

Yes really.

Do you consider me one of the "pro-Muslims"?

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

All the discourse about Islam here is predictably and stereotypically Western.  It's not something to be proud of, but neither are we unique in that regard.

[ingemann]

This is, as predicted, being tossed aside, of course.  Doesn't fit the narrative.

It's not because of the "narrative" it's; once burned twice shy.

Also there's three narratives; the one which pretend there's no problem with Muslims and it's always the fault of others. One which blame Muslims for everything and at last one who don't care whose fault it is, but seek solutions.

The first offer no solutions, while the latter two tries to find solutions, but tend to disagre on them. Most "pro-Muslims" on this board belong to the first one, who are more busy pointing fingers at the West's "narrative". While most people on this board who are critical of Muslims belong to the last. The blame Muslims for everything is relative rare here.

Really?

Yes really.

Do you consider me one of the "pro-Muslims"?

"pro-Muslims" do sound a little ugly even in talking marks. Another term would likely have been less horrible sounding.

But honestly while you have been active on the subject (immigration and Islam), I haven't read enough from you yet (and nothing I remember you have written have been horrible, even when I disagreed with it) to make that judgement.

But you can answer it yourself, how often do you shift blame or talk about them being a minority among Muslims (which is correct, but the Nazi was also just a minority in Germany), when some Muslim idiot do something terrible, assholish or horrible?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I'm not really sure. I mean, I recognise that at the moment Islam is undergoing a well-funded and powerful drive towards the Salafi, and that as a consequence violent acts associated with the religion are becoming more and more obvious in. A way that is not the comparable to any other relevant under contemporary times (I'm not blind).

What I am sceptical about is that people violently acting in religious means are acting due to theological reasons (I think they're just dense people who seek glory and infamy). A religion only has enough power over somebody's mind as they let it.

[ingemann]

I'm not really sure. I mean, I recognise that at the moment Islam is undergoing a well-funded and powerful drive towards the Salafi, and that as a consequence violent acts associated with the religion are becoming more and more obvious in. A way that is not the comparable to any other relevant under contemporary times (I'm not blind).

What I am sceptical about is that people violently acting in religious means are acting due to theological reasons (I think they're just dense people who seek glory and infamy). A religion only has enough power over somebody's mind as they let it.

I agree that much Islamic violence are not caused by the theology, because we see the same sectarian behaviour among many non-Muslims (like Burmese monks). But I think the Islamic theology serve as strengthening factor in this sectarian violence, just as Christian theology did in the past among Christians. But historical factors are even more important. The sectarian violence we see in the Arab world is too large extent a result of the failure of Arab secularism and nationalism. But Islamic theology allow this to spread outside the Arab world to a wider Islamic world.

[SATW]

a good chunk of the left here is beyond blind when it comes to radical islam. They are also biased against normal, mainstream conservatives who want to defeat radical islam.

Most conservatives, such as myself, have no issue with muslims and I oppose any attempt to demonize muslims as a whole. However, there is a radical islam problem and it must be addressed by muslim community leaders so it is encouraging when Muslim Leaders do tackle these problems, they need to be recognized for their role in opposing extremism and for trying to foster a normal environment for their communities.

[DemPGH]

Well, if "Muslim leaders" are fighting the fringe element, they are either losing or themselves are the fringe, as evidence around the world suggests. Honor killings continue virtually unabated in Pakistan where a young woman was recently burned alive by her family, and in Qatar where a raped woman from Europe was convicted of "elicit sex" or some other nonsense. This stuff is just normal in that dark corner of the world. Maybe somehow, someway this does not have to do with Islam, and that these places are just barbaric, but I somehow think the two have to be correlated.

[Boston Bread]

Most conservatives, such as myself, have no issue with muslims

Most conservatives favour Trump's ban on Muslims.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Well, if "Muslim leaders" are fighting the fringe element, they are either losing or themselves are the fringe, as evidence around the world suggests. Honor killings continue virtually unabated in Pakistan where a young woman was recently burned alive by her family, and in Qatar where a raped woman from Europe was convicted of "elicit sex" or some other nonsense. This stuff is just normal in that dark corner of the world. Maybe somehow, someway this does not have to do with Islam, and that these places are just barbaric, but I somehow think the two have to be correlated.

That has existed before Islam's arrival to the world, you have to factor in culture as well. There are MANY things that ARE NOT Islamic that exist in the cultures of these places (I.e FGM in African countries - Christians do it as well).

a good chunk of the left here is beyond blind when it comes to radical islam. They are also biased against normal, mainstream conservatives who want to defeat radical islam.

Most conservatives, such as myself, have no issue with muslims and I oppose any attempt to demonize muslims as a whole. However, there is a radical islam problem and it must be addressed by muslim community leaders so it is encouraging when Muslim Leaders do tackle these problems, they need to be recognized for their role in opposing extremism and for trying to foster a normal environment for their communities.

That is a lie and you know it. You guys have been spewing vitriol against us for over a decade now and that is why we mobilize to vote against conservatives as readily we do and will continue to do so until they stop demonizing all of us.



Now as for the community leaders, Islam really doesn't have a "leader" or at least wasn't supposed to, there isn't supposed to be a priestly class, literally I could become a "leader" by just speaking.

Also, kind of hard to combat extremism when you have SA funding a lot of the extremism and I can promise you, if they are Saudi funded, they're not doing a damn thing to stop it.

[SATW]

Well, if "Muslim leaders" are fighting the fringe element, they are either losing or themselves are the fringe, as evidence around the world suggests. Honor killings continue virtually unabated in Pakistan where a young woman was recently burned alive by her family, and in Qatar where a raped woman from Europe was convicted of "elicit sex" or some other nonsense. This stuff is just normal in that dark corner of the world. Maybe somehow, someway this does not have to do with Islam, and that these places are just barbaric, but I somehow think the two have to be correlated.

That has existed before Islam's arrival to the world, you have to factor in culture as well. There are MANY things that ARE NOT Islamic that exist in the cultures of these places (I.e FGM in African countries - Christians do it as well).

a good chunk of the left here is beyond blind when it comes to radical islam. They are also biased against normal, mainstream conservatives who want to defeat radical islam.

Most conservatives, such as myself, have no issue with muslims and I oppose any attempt to demonize muslims as a whole. However, there is a radical islam problem and it must be addressed by muslim community leaders so it is encouraging when Muslim Leaders do tackle these problems, they need to be recognized for their role in opposing extremism and for trying to foster a normal environment for their communities.

That is a lie and you know it. You guys have been spewing vitriol against us for over a decade now and that is why we mobilize to vote against conservatives as readily we do and will continue to do so until they stop demonizing all of us.



Now as for the community leaders, Islam really doesn't have a "leader" or at least wasn't supposed to, there isn't supposed to be a priestly class, literally I could become a "leader" by just speaking.

Also, kind of hard to combat extremism when you have SA funding a lot of the extremism and I can promise you, if they are Saudi funded, they're not doing a damn thing to stop it.

Of course, I can't really speak for everyone, but I most certainly can speak for myself: I have never had an issue with Muslims. If you, or others, think I do...I would suggest reading through my posting history, as I have never suggested that "all muslims" are evil or whatever.

I have also been very critical of the U.S. Relationship to Saudi Arabia (I'm not just a one street hater of the Iranian gov't. I don't like extremists of any type.)