The idea of life at conception

[DC Al Fine]

To elaborate on what Nathan said, the early church was against abortion. The Didache is one of the oldest, if not the oldest non-Bible Christian document out there. Among other things it says:

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The question then, was when does life begin? This developed as our knowledge of conception and pregnancy grew. St. Augustine I believe speculated that the soul entered the body at quickening. This should not be taken as endorsement of first trimester abortion, but rather a question of the science at the time.

[DC Al Fine]

I believe neither that society is inherently good or evil nor that individuals are inherently good or evil. Relative benevolence is not a factor here. Rather it is that individuals don't function in isolation. They are part of a society, and thus restrictions on individuals that benefit society as a whole are generally a good thing. (I'm aware that not every such restriction put forth with that claimed goal actually is beneficial to society as a whole.)

Not only that, but I doubt that even you would argue in favor of allowing infanticide if a woman gave birth yet felt no connection to the infant. So clearly there's something beyond the woman's point of view to be considered in deciding when a life becomes a human life. Something determined by society.

When a woman gives birth the baby is clearly a human with associated rights. I'm talking about defining personhood before the point of viability which I think rests with the mother. I have no idea what you are trying to argue about.

I'm not Ernest, but I think he is saying that "mother's connection" is a too arbitrary standard. It would lead to the absurdity of Baby A and Baby B having more or less identical characteristics (heartbeat, feel pain, whatever), yet only one would be a person.