Winter is Coming (GoT is back)

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

They emphasized this episode that Mel believes she brings people back if its R'hillor's will they live. It's entirely likely that that only falls to a few characters.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

The Vale army is huge and to think that Ramsey wouldn't have seen it coming if they waited would have left a plot hole just as large as Sansa's refusal to tell Jon about the raven. The Bolton force needed to be outside Winterfell for the battle to have lasted only one episode to begin with. Hence, I think it was very convenient for Sansa not to tell Jon beyond just the deux ex machina factor.

Maybe I'm just too optimistic but I really think that they're going to address Sansa's lack of forthrightness going into the next episode and probably though the next season. It's a seed planted that might eventually lead to a Sansa vs. Jon conflict, which would be a very interesting direction to go if they commit to it.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

One thing about "barely" having enough ships to take Dany's entourage to Westeros: Couldn't the ships make two trips if they have to?  Even half of her army would be plenty to at least hold onto some territory in Westeros where they could chill for a while.  Then send the ships back to get the rest.  How long would that take?  A few weeks?

It'd make for poor optics and that's apparently the only thing this show is about now.

I'd note that the whole luring Ramsay into the field thing makes sense but there is literally ZERO reason why Jon knowing about the Vale army would prevent that. You could do the exact same plan but with the Vale knights charging in 5 minutes earlier and have a much improved outcome for Team Stark.

As far as I can see the only reason to not do this was that they wanted a "cavalry arriving scene" for emotional gratification. Fcking morons.

See I would be inclined to agree with you about the overuse of the trope but it just seems too out-of-place for the script to specifically harp on Sansa not telling Jon if it was oversight. In the last episode they put a lot of emphasis on Sansa's tightlippedness during the scene when Jon questions her where more men are going to come from. Furthermore, Brienne calls her out on doing exactly that earlier on in the season. There's going to be an in-universe explanation for why Sansa was clammed up about Littlefinger, and I expect its going to lead to some rift between the Starks, especially if Sansa finds out that Jon is Lyanna's son, not Ned's.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

That was the best payoff episode I think I've ever watched.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

A friend of mine suggested another possibility; what if Cersei's end is facilitated by... Jaime?  He already killed one king for merely threatening to do what Cersei just did.

I think this is likely what will happen, and I will be disappointed if things don't end this way.  I think that Jaime will complete his heroic arc by killing Cersei to protect the smallfolk (presumably from another batch of wildfire, and thus fulfilling the valonqar prophecy) and then either kill himself or die heroically shortly thereafter.

Yeah this seems most likely. But if Arya does go South, I'm not sure this ending will be as clear cut. If Jaime is in King's Landing and Arya is in KL trying to kill Cersei, what's the payoff to Arya's character arc? Jaime's is more clear here (unless I guess ending up with Brienne could be Jaime's payoff -- I'd be highly surprised if Jaime survives the series though).

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

A) It might make sense for her character (although for someone who's supposedly all about her children, she didn't give much thought how Tommen might react to losing Margaery... but fair enough, I get it, she's a spiteful and deluded). That doesn't make it a good narrative choice. Maybe I was the only one who found the King's Landing plot interesting, but even if you didn't there's something awfully lazy about wrapping up a storyline by suddenly killing all the participants but one in a way that turns all that preceded into a shaggy dog story. Oh, and the utter pretentiousness of showing the sparrow desperately trying to extinguish the candle when it's obvious he's gonna fail... It's a detail but it's frankly an insult to the viewer.

B) She was never going to win, why? Because she's not popular enough as a character? I love how everybody fawns over Tyrion's charisma and intelligence (nothing wrong about Tyrion per se, he's a good character, but the hype gets annoying after a while) yet completely overlooks Margaery who proved just as apt at maneuvering through a variety of political situation and has if anything more noble purposes than Tyrion. She was unique because, even in a show like GoT that plays around with gender tropes more than most Western shows, she had a rare twist on the "strong female character^TM" routine. She actually drew her strength from stereotypically "feminine" qualities (seduction, emotional intelligence, even temper, etc.) yet wasn't portrayed negatively for doing so as women in fiction almost always are. She could be devious, scheming and manipulative, and at the same time kind, true to herself, and actually trying to make the world a better place. A morally complex drama about politics in a pseudo-medieval context should have made good use of a character like this, not squandered it in a way that made it completely superfluous to the story.

And yeah, the High Sparrow and the general idea of a theocracy taking hold of King's Landing was also a very interesting concept that deserved to be sent off in a more ceremonious way that that.

C) Whether it's shown directly or implied, it's still torture porn. It's not necessary to the story in any way, it's just there to SHOCK viewers (and possibly titillate some). For the record, I feel the same about Ramsay's death scene (Sansa is supposed to be better than this, for f**k's sake).

Well, I guess she wasn't as apt in the end.

Part of the issue might be that this clever Margaery is a bit of a show invention. As far as I recall from the books there isn't much of that aspect to her character there.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the show ending for Margaery (not losing because of her own mistakes but because of the High Sparrow) is actually more dignifying for her than the one planned by GRRM.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

This is one of those episodes where watching it live is better because the quality would be spectacular.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

it was SOOOO tense, I don't know if I've ever been so tense watching a TV show before.


So...Bronn or Daenerys, who were you rooting for?  I was so torn, but I knew I didn't want Bronn to die more than anything else.

Bronn since Dany's really annoying; even though I knew it would happen, I was genuinely disappointed Qyburn's ballista didn't work.

It worked, it just didn't hit the right part of Drogon.