Are left-leaning Jews seen as "traitors"?
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  Are left-leaning Jews seen as "traitors"?
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Author Topic: Are left-leaning Jews seen as "traitors"?  (Read 264 times)
Suburbia
bronz4141
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« on: December 27, 2016, 04:37:44 PM »

Are leftist-leaning Jewish Americans "traitors" if they are against Israeli settlements? This is the new talk on TV and in Jewish enclaves like Boro Park, Brooklyn. I'm not Jewish, but a lot of Jewish friends are saying this that I know. What's going on? Why is this happening?
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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
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« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2016, 05:22:37 PM »
« Edited: December 27, 2016, 05:27:31 PM by SunriseAroundTheWorld »

My Take for left-leaning Jews:

- Liberal Jews who are Pro-Israel, are meh on the two-state solution and are supportive of settlements are amazing FFs and great Jews. (i.e. Haim Sabans and Joe Lieberman's of the world).
- Liberal Jews who are Pro-Israel, support a two-state solution and are weary of settlements are FFs and good Jews. (i.e. Alan Dershowitz's, Chuck Schumer's of the world).
- Liberal Jews who are Pro-Israel, strongly supportive of a two state solution and are openly critical but not hateful towards Settlements are still FFs and good Jews (i.e. Barbara Boxer's, Steve Israel's of the world)

- Progressive Jews who claim to be Pro-Israel but want to force a two-state solution on Israel, divide up Jerusalem's holy sites and boycott Settlements are HPs and not good Jews. (Peter Beinart's, J-Street's, Dianne Feinstein's of the world).
- Ultra-Leftist Jews who are openly Anti-Israel, Pro-Boycotting Settlements and Pro-Boycotting Israel are POS's and HPs and self-haters. (The Jewish Voice of Peace's of the worlds)



For Right-wing Jews:
- Far-Right Jews who are pro-One State Solution, Act illiberally and support acts of graffiti or harm against political enemies or Arabs are massive HPs. (Lehava, Hilltop youth, etc...)
- Far-Right Jews who are fanatically Pro-Israel but anti-Diaspora and anti-Liberal Jews and want a One-State solution are misguided politically are are lean HPs to me. (partisan hack right-wing jews like David Horowitz)

- Right-wing Jews who are All Israel, All the time and oppose giving up any land and are 100% Pro-Settlers are  flawed FFs but great Jews (The average Settler leader)
- Right-wing Jews who strongly support Israel, support some sort of peaceful end to the conflict and strongly support settlements are amazing FFs and great Jews. (ZOA, Naftali Bennett, Ayelet Shaked, Lee Zeldin)
- Right-wing Jews who strongly support Israel, support the two-state solution and strongly support settlements are amazing FFs and great Jews (Benjamin Netanyahu, Eric Cantor, Avigidor Lieberman)
- Right-wing Jews who strongly support Israel, support the two-state solution and moderately support settlements are FFs and great Jews. (AIPAC, average member of the Jewish Conference of Presidents).



I think I'm fairly inclusive here.

EDIT: I don't like the idea of identity politics, though. Yes, I will call J-Street self-haters but they ultimately are allowed to do what they want, but their actions are against the interests of the Jewish community as a whole. 

I think there is a difference between wanting communal or collective unity and forcing people to think like you. The former is fine, the latter is horrible and ridiculous.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2016, 05:33:26 PM »

I think you guys know my opinion on this...
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Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2016, 05:38:06 PM »

My Take for left-leaning Jews:

- Liberal Jews who are Pro-Israel, are meh on the two-state solution and are supportive of settlements are amazing FFs and great Jews. (i.e. Haim Sabans and Joe Lieberman's of the world).
- Liberal Jews who are Pro-Israel, support a two-state solution and are weary of settlements are FFs and good Jews. (i.e. Alan Dershowitz's, Chuck Schumer's of the world).
- Liberal Jews who are Pro-Israel, strongly supportive of a two state solution and are openly critical but not hateful towards Settlements are still FFs and good Jews (i.e. Barbara Boxer's, Steve Israel's of the world)

- Progressive Jews who claim to be Pro-Israel but want to force a two-state solution on Israel, divide up Jerusalem's holy sites and boycott Settlements are HPs and not good Jews. (Peter Beinart's, J-Street's, Dianne Feinstein's of the world).
- Ultra-Leftist Jews who are openly Anti-Israel, Pro-Boycotting Settlements and Pro-Boycotting Israel are POS's and HPs and self-haters. (The Jewish Voice of Peace's of the worlds)



For Right-wing Jews:
- Far-Right Jews who are pro-One State Solution, Act illiberally and support acts of graffiti or harm against political enemies or Arabs are massive HPs. (Lehava, Hilltop youth, etc...)
- Far-Right Jews who are fanatically Pro-Israel but anti-Diaspora and anti-Liberal Jews and want a One-State solution are misguided politically are are lean HPs to me. (partisan hack right-wing jews like David Horowitz)

- Right-wing Jews who are All Israel, All the time and oppose giving up any land and are 100% Pro-Settlers are  flawed FFs but great Jews (The average Settler leader)
- Right-wing Jews who strongly support Israel, support some sort of peaceful end to the conflict and strongly support settlements are amazing FFs and great Jews. (ZOA, Naftali Bennett, Ayelet Shaked, Lee Zeldin)
- Right-wing Jews who strongly support Israel, support the two-state solution and strongly support settlements are amazing FFs and great Jews (Benjamin Netanyahu, Eric Cantor, Avigidor Lieberman)
- Right-wing Jews who strongly support Israel, support the two-state solution and moderately support settlements are FFs and great Jews. (AIPAC, average member of the Jewish Conference of Presidents).



I think I'm fairly inclusive here.

EDIT: I don't like the idea of identity politics, though. Yes, I will call J-Street self-haters but they ultimately are allowed to do what they want, but their actions are against the interests of the Jewish community as a whole. 

I think there is a difference between wanting communal or collective unity and forcing people to think like you. The former is fine, the latter is horrible and ridiculous.

This is very close to where I am.

I find the recent mischief by Obama to be a good deciding factor. If a Jewish person still supports his actions on the issue, they cannot claim to be a friend of Israel in any way.
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America Needs R'hllor
Parrotguy
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« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2016, 05:50:07 PM »
« Edited: December 27, 2016, 05:51:39 PM by Parrotguy »

Everything is polarized. Not just ethnicities, but just about every country as well. So yeah, the word traitor is being thrown around like a freesby in Israel too, and this freesby of incitement is almost always hitting the left with full force and  delegitimizing an entire political camp.

I agree with most of Sunrise's analysis, though I dislike the term "good Jew, bad Jew", am fine with the J-Street kind and uncomfortable with the Settler Leader kind. Of course, I don't see almost anyone as a traitor. Calling someone a traitor is an incitement to violence, plain and simple.
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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
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« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2016, 07:58:38 PM »

Agreed, I shouldn't have used the "good jew, bad jew" thing, it's a bit archaic and too judgmental for me. But, certainly, I believe certain actions can be debated on a positive for the community vs negative for the community standpoint.
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