Liberals Ready to Abandon Abortion as an Issue

[TheresNoMoney]

I said the Republican party (meaning Republican politicians), not average Republicans (although many of them fit the description as well).

[Blue Rectangle]

how is this known? is it done by tax write-offs or by polls, or some other way?

It's based on itemized deductions on tax returns.  The site I linked has more information.

[bullmoose88]

When someone can prove to me that its republicans in mississippi and democrats in california being the donors, then I'll believe that list...

until then, its value is...


minimal.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

STOP WITH THE REDSTATEBLUESTATE CRAP OR I WILL KILL YOU ALL

Thank you

[Gabu]

I would be interested to see actual absolute numbers instead of a comparative list, given that 3.0000000000001 > 3.

http://www.catalogueforphilanthropy.org
The spread is about 2:1, so we're not talking about small differences here.

It seems to me that this doesn't really prove that much.  Given that everything is an average, it seems to me that it doesn't necessarily mean that those who don't have much are giving a lot, and could instead mean that a few generous rich people are offsetting the "giving" average more than the "having" average.  I don't think that dollars earned and given per capita is necessarily a good method of determining what the overall population does.

[Alcon]

Actually, the only reason that "red states" (God, do I ever hate that term) rank that high is because of church attendance.  You'll notice that Mississippi, a poor state, ranks highly.  That's mainly because the churches there most encourage donations.  Even poor blacks donate considerably to their churches.  As you can tell from Utah's position, considering tithe, some give a huge amount to the church, although tithe might somehow not be considered (you'd think that would put Utah at #1).

Think of it as you like, but in my mind having a plate handed out in front of you is considerably different than taking the initiative to write a check and send it out.  I am not saying that one is any less generous than the other, but using this as a ranking of generosity is probably misguided.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

It proves they're generous to their church.

Hey, you know what?  You and jfern are the ones making the unsubstantiated and outrageous claim that Republicans are a bunch of cold-hearted misers.  Why don't you provide some evidence to back it up?

I've linked to this a zillion times before. Blue states like CA and  NJ heavily subsidize red states like WY and ND.

[CARLHAYDEN]

I don't think most liberal in public office will abandon their support for abortion on demand, but the numbers indicate that they should.

Gallup has been asking an abortion question for many years, and the trend in the responses is most interesting.  They asked whether abortion should be: Always Legal, Sometimes Legal, or Always Illegal.  A brief tabulation of the responses followsL

Year     Always     Sometimes     Always
            Legal         Legal            Illegal

1990      31%          56%              12%

2000      28             51                  19

2005      24             55                  20

The only other social issue tracked for a long time showing a pretty consistent trend against the position taken by most Democrats in public office deals with firearms.     

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I don't think most liberal in public office will abandon their support for abortion on demand, but the numbers indicate that they should.

Gallup has been asking an abortion question for many years, and the trend in the responses is most interesting.  They asked whether abortion should be: Always Legal, Sometimes Legal, or Always Illegal.  A brief tabulation of the responses followsL

Year     Always     Sometimes     Always
            Legal         Legal            Illegal

1990      31%          56%              12%

2000      28             51                  19

2005      24             55                  20

The only other social issue tracked for a long time showing a pretty consistent trend against the position taken by most Democrats in public office deals with firearms.     

A lot of the Republicans want to completely ban it, so are in that 20%.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Do you ever bother to read my posts.

First, I have repeatedly favored selected limits on abortion (Partial birth abortion ban, parental notification, etc.) not a total ban.

Second, I am as I have previously noted a Democrat.

Third, try dealing with the facts I posted (if you can).

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Do you ever bother to read my posts.

First, I have repeatedly favored selected limits on abortion (Partial birth abortion ban, parental notification, etc.) not a total ban.

Second, I am as I have previously noted a Democrat.

Third, try dealing with the facts I posted (if you can).

Ummm, the Republicans will do everything they can do ban it. They'll probably want to ban the morning after pill, too. Dobson has made it clear that he doesn't like abortion.

[jokerman]

Do you ever bother to read my posts.

First, I have repeatedly favored selected limits on abortion (Partial birth abortion ban, parental notification, etc.) not a total ban.

Second, I am as I have previously noted a Democrat.

Third, try dealing with the facts I posted (if you can).

Ummm, the Republicans will do everything they can do ban it. They'll probably want to ban the morning after pill, too. Dobson has made it clear that he doesn't like abortion.

What the hell?  I've never seen a major Republican wanting to ban all abortions.  I have quite often seen Democrats wanting to allow all abortions.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Do you ever bother to read my posts.

First, I have repeatedly favored selected limits on abortion (Partial birth abortion ban, parental notification, etc.) not a total ban.

Second, I am as I have previously noted a Democrat.

Third, try dealing with the facts I posted (if you can).

Ummm, the Republicans will do everything they can do ban it. They'll probably want to ban the morning after pill, too. Dobson has made it clear that he doesn't like abortion.

What the hell?  I've never seen a major Republican wanting to ban all abortions.  I have quite often seen Democrats wanting to allow all abortions.

Plenty of them. For example Coburn and Dobson.

[Lincoln Republican]

Winfield, why don't you mind your own business?

I don't get all bent out of shape if you remove your spleen or some such part.

I beg your pardon?  My own business?

I, or anyone else, can express themselves on this issue, or any other as they see fit, thank you very much.

And your comparison of a "spleen or some such part" to a helpless infant is, to say the least, in extremely bad taste. 

The point is you are proposing interference in someone elses internal organs.  Talk about intrusive government!

Couldn't possibly have any bearing on you.

If you or anyone else whish to condone baby killing by disguising it as "choice", that's your own decision. 

The character and worth of a nation is determined by how they treat the most helpless and vulnerable in society.

Something that can't live outside the womb is certaintly not a baby

You obviously don't know much about partial birth abortion.

Most partial birth abortions are performed in the fifth and sixth months of pregnancy.  Even eraly in the fifth month, babies who are expelled by premature labor will often be born alive.  At that stage the baby's lungs are too undeveloped to permit sustained survival, but if the baby draws breath it is a live virth.

Medically and legally, "live birth" is an entirely different concept from "viability" (which relates mainly to lung development and the capacity for sustained respiration).  The "live birth" period begins long before "viability."  Even under the doctrine of Roe v. Wade, once outside the mother, a human who shows any signs of life is a "person" protected by law and the Constitution, whether he or she lives for five minutes or 100 years.

By 20 weeks (halfway through the fifth month) the live born baby may breathe for an hour or so before dying.  By 23 weeks (just into the sixth month), one third survive longterm--but you will never find out whether a given baby would have been part of the one-third, after their skull is punctured and brain removed in a PBA.

By 24 weeks (about half way through the sixth month), more than half are long-term survivors.

Therefore, at the stages that most partial birth abortions are performed, the great majority of babies would be "live births" if they were expelled by spontaneous premature labor, and many would be long term survivors.

In other words, in a partial birth abortion, a premature human is deliberately pulled to within just a few inches of being, medically and legally, a live birth.--so this method is indeed a partial live birth--or partial birth, for short. 

In other words, most babies killed by partial birth abortions would very well live outside the womb.  Therefore, partial birth abortions are nothing short of baby killing.