Ukraine Crisis

[Zanas]

http://time.com/22125/ukraine-crimea-cossacks-russia/

Armed Cossacks have taken to "patrolling" Crimea, and building fortifications, among other details.

Ukraine can easily kick them out by arming a few angry, pipe-hitting Crimean Tartars with Aks and plyers.

Hardly.  Even before the upcoming anchluss, the Russians were the majority in the Crimea and Russia has a much more robust military than Ukraine. Putin of course would love the excuse he had been hoping to get for his conduct, but thankfully Ukraine did learn the lesson of Georgia.  You need to use diplomacy and not military means to have any hope of confronting Russia and winning.  Granted, it's a slim hope, but it's better than the zero chance they'd have if they went military in their response.

Russia is concentrating troops on the border with Ukraine - far from Crimea. A public commitment to defense of, at least, mainland Ukraine is urgent. Otherwise, we will be discussing Poland a lot sooner than most think.

I get that you are anxious, ag, I really get it. But Poland is part of the EU and Nato for Bretzel's sake ! It's a completely different story.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

http://time.com/22125/ukraine-crimea-cossacks-russia/

Armed Cossacks have taken to "patrolling" Crimea, and building fortifications, among other details.

Ukraine can easily kick them out by arming a few angry, pipe-hitting Crimean Tartars with Aks and plyers.

Hardly.  Even before the upcoming anchluss, the Russians were the majority in the Crimea and Russia has a much more robust military than Ukraine. Putin of course would love the excuse he had been hoping to get for his conduct, but thankfully Ukraine did learn the lesson of Georgia.  You need to use diplomacy and not military means to have any hope of confronting Russia and winning.  Granted, it's a slim hope, but it's better than the zero chance they'd have if they went military in their response.

Russia is concentrating troops on the border with Ukraine - far from Crimea. A public commitment to defense of, at least, mainland Ukraine is urgent. Otherwise, we will be discussing Poland a lot sooner than most think.

I get that you are anxious, ag, I really get it. But Poland is part of the EU and Nato for Bretzel's sake ! It's a completely different story.

Agreed.
Georgia is Austria.
Ukraine is Czechoslovakia.
Poland is Poland, which means it needs to be prepared to have a nervous Germany stab her in the back to secure its gas supply.

[Peeperkorn]

I can't understand why leaving Crimea to the Russians is so hard for the West. They already had the territory de facto.

Anyway, if a press tirh Russian FM was intelligent, they should ask him about "self determination" in Chechenya

[ag]

http://time.com/22125/ukraine-crimea-cossacks-russia/

Armed Cossacks have taken to "patrolling" Crimea, and building fortifications, among other details.

Ukraine can easily kick them out by arming a few angry, pipe-hitting Crimean Tartars with Aks and plyers.

Hardly.  Even before the upcoming anchluss, the Russians were the majority in the Crimea and Russia has a much more robust military than Ukraine. Putin of course would love the excuse he had been hoping to get for his conduct, but thankfully Ukraine did learn the lesson of Georgia.  You need to use diplomacy and not military means to have any hope of confronting Russia and winning.  Granted, it's a slim hope, but it's better than the zero chance they'd have if they went military in their response.

Russia is concentrating troops on the border with Ukraine - far from Crimea. A public commitment to defense of, at least, mainland Ukraine is urgent. Otherwise, we will be discussing Poland a lot sooner than most think.

I get that you are anxious, ag, I really get it. But Poland is part of the EU and Nato for Bretzel's sake ! It's a completely different story.

So, when Putin asks for, say, a land link to Kaliningrad, you guys will, actually, be willing to fight?

[ag]

I can't understand why leaving Crimea to the Russians is so hard for the West. They already had the territory de facto.

Because Russia will not be satisfied with Crimea.

[Middle-aged Europe]

I can't understand why leaving Crimea to the Russians is so hard for the West. They already had the territory de facto.

They didn't. Well, depends on how you define "having". If you mean having by lots of ethnic Russians living there, then Turkey de facto has Berlin-Kreuzberg too.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Poland is Poland, which means it needs to be prepared to have a nervous Germany stab her in the back to secure its gas supply.

Let's hope that Uschi - our new commander-in-chief - didn't read your suggestion.

[ag]

Seems like everything is getting ready for a Russian invasion into the Ukrainian mainland. God help us all.

[Mr. Morden]

Not good (re: the possibility of Russia intervening in Ukraine outside of Crimea):

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/14/russia-warning-fatal-clashes-ukraine-donetsk-protect-compatriots

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[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Godwin ought to become an infractable offense.

[Mr. Morden]

Godwin ought to become an infractable offense.

You know who else suggested new infractable offenses?  That's right….Hitler.

[RogueBeaver]

Reports that 40 Russian paratroopers have landed in eastern Ukraine.

[ag]

Godwin ought to become an infractable offense.

Under the circumstances, I woul not have expected this from a Pole.

[RogueBeaver]

Ukrainians repelled that Russian landing attempt, while Russia vetoed a UNSC resolution declaring the referendum illegal.

[YL]

Ukrainian foreign office statement (via Guardian):

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Strilkove is in the Kherson oblast part of a spit of land on the western side of the Sea of Azov which is split between Kherson oblast and Crimea.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Godwin ought to become an infractable offense.

Under the circumstances, I woul not have expected this from a Pole.

Considering your amazing grasp on reality, I'm actually relieved to heard that.

[MalaspinaGold]

Apparently Russian troops have seized a natural gas plant outside Crimea:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/15/moscow-protest-crimea_n_4969970.html#598_ukraine-says-russian-forces-seize-gas-plant-outside-crimea

[NewYorkExpress]

Ukrainians repelled that Russian landing attempt, while Russia vetoed a UNSC resolution declaring the referendum illegal.

China sort of backed Russia up here... they abstained rather joining Russia's veto, but they don't seem oppose Russia either...

I think it's time for President Obama to ask for a Declaration of War against Russia (Which we know he won't, but it's not the Ukraine can really hold for more than two weeks if Putin puts some effort into an invasion.)

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I think it's time for President Obama to ask for a Declaration of War against Russia

It's not.

[Middle-aged Europe]

I think it's time for President Obama to ask for a Declaration of War against Russia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37OWL7AzvHo

[Middle-aged Europe]

Tens of thousands of people participated in a peace march in Moscow today, outnumbering the rival pro-Putin rally by far:

http://www.dw.de/tens-of-thousands-attend-moscow-peace-rally-as-russia-vetoes-un-resolution-on-crimea-referendum/a-17499145

[Maxwell]

I think it's time for President Obama to ask for a Declaration of War against Russia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUttbZcv7WI

[SWE]

I think it's time for President Obama to ask for a Declaration of War against Russia

I see no consequences

[YL]

According to Al Jazeera, the Russian line on the Strilkove incident is that they were trying to prevent a "terrorist attack" on a gas plant.  (The implication was also that the Russian troops are still there.)

[bullmoose88]

Ukrainians repelled that Russian landing attempt, while Russia vetoed a UNSC resolution declaring the referendum illegal.

I think it's time for President Obama to ask for a Declaration of War against Russia (Which we know he won't, but it's not the Ukraine can really hold for more than two weeks if Putin puts some effort into an invasion.)

If you're sincere about this, you better decide and practice the pose in which you would like to be etched into the sidewalk.  The West isn't going to turn and burn for Ukraine.  Moscow knows this.