SENATE BILL: Fix the Regions Amendment Take Two (Sent to the Regions)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Now fill the damn FP slot.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Just adds the title to the text.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

OK friends, I hope we can ram this through as fast as we can so we can move on to discussing the real plan. Please at least show up to vote on this.

I don't see why we cannot get it done by the end of the week.

Of course the first step to moving qucikly is for bore to get in here and declare my aemndemnt friendly.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Status: Senators have 24 hours to object.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The amendment has been adopted.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It is absolutely important that the consent of the regions being changed is required. If certain regions are abolished against the will of their citizens, there will be a lot of discontent. And that's a recipe for disaster. Thus, clause three should be amended to read as follows again:

"The consent of the Regions being changed is required."

I understand that this might be unfair to the Mideast, given that they seem to be the most functional, active and populated region. That said, when the rest of the regions have half the population and major issues with inactivity, trolling and the threat of collapse, it would be also unfair to stop the process just to please a single region. The majority of Atlasian citizens (assured by the two thirds rule) is more "important" than the majority of a single region.

I think we don't have enough time to allow for this to fail thanks to a single region being opposed. Zuwo has a valid point here, it is very dangerous to ignore a region's votes (in the case that, let's say, the Mideast votes against this). But this is our time to take a risk. Keeping this situation going for months is as dangerous as going forward with this amendment. A couple of days ago we lost 16 voters, and the Atlasian population has reduced itself in about 20-25% in the past months. The Pacific faces anarchy, the Northeast, South and Midwest have trouble with having competitive elections, twelve at-large Senators have resigned in the past year (I believe) and even the Mideast faces fatigue.

If we are going to make changes and create a new functional Atlasia, this is our time. I have learned to love my region, but as a Regional Executive I am willing to destroy it to create new regions so we can help improve the game.

Lumine, if the situation is really that dire, then the game is already doomed. For one thing I don't think it is that dire. Even if it were, Consolidation is going to provide little in the way of turning that around in my opinion because once the intial activity and interest created by the "new regions" flags cosntitutions and such are settled out, you have litte more then what you had before. In short, you seem to be coutning on a short term activity boost to solve a long term activity problem. The fundamental situation will remain the same regardless of the number of offices or regions, largely because the same issues will remain and thus leave little to demand interest.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

If we are going to make changes and create a new functional Atlasia, this is our time. I have learned to love my region, but as a Regional Executive I am willing to destroy it to create new regions so we can help improve the game.

Each of the Atlasian Governors has pledged to "preserve, protect and defend" the Constitutions of our respective regions. We must not forget that.

As for Governor PJ's post, all I can say is that I don't have the power to block anything as I'm just an ordinary voter in a region made up of nearly 50 citizens. What I demand, however, is that the voice of every single Atlasian region is heard and taken seriously. If a majority of citizens in a region don't want their region to be dissolved we must respect that. Nothing is more harmful for a political simulation like Atlasia than forcing such radical changes down the throat of a large number of players. You simply risk losing many active players this way. The question is: Can Atlasia afford that? My answer to that question is no, and I therefore urge the Senate to defeat this amendment unless it includes a clause which states that the consent of the regions being changed is required.

I misunderstood the clause of the amendment, which isn't your fault, but it does not specify via public referendum.

You are right. A public referendum is a necessity, of course. Such far-reaching reform attempts must be voted on by the entire citizenry of the regions that are targeted for dissolution, not only by their governments.

Well, those of us who are strongly in favor of reform are counting on massive public approval, hence the existence of the consent process. I agree with you, there should be a referendum, but I think the majority of Atlasia matters more than a majority in all regions. What if the overwhelming majority of Atlasia votes for change and a single region votes against it with a small plurality? Should we disregard the entire process and the wishes of the rest of the country?

This is a dangerous solution, but all previous attempts have failed. God knows how hard PJ (and Tyrion as Governor) have worked to save the Pacific, and it's not enough. Should we just wait until problems are solved and the game functional again? Is there a way to address those problems without altering the dynamics of the game? I honestly can't think of one...

The problem is Lumine, is that it is all built on the assumption that consolidation is the answer/will work. Granted it might be, but once the dust settles the paradigm will not have changed and in my view that is going to be an overriding factor. And there isn't much appetite for having a discussion about that paradigm, because 1) consolidation has been latched onto as the end all be all magic bullet and 2) it takes people outo f their comfort zone.

It was these two factors that drove me away from consolidation. I fear the short sighted nature of the pursuit of this will set us on a course to a regionless Atlasia, should the Consolidation happen and yet still leave us with the basic paradigm that I have mentioned. That would be a disaster for the exodus of disgruntled players would swamp the gains achieved from reducing offices.

Past experience in this game with various people, leaves me even less confident.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What would be extremely problematic is if no amendments passed just because one region halted everything. I advocate regional rights, I want the regions to do more, but that is practically nullification talk ZuWo.

Where is Zuwo advocating for the ignoring of, or declaing of, lawfully passed Federal Statute, as unconstitutional? Silly Maxwell!

I think Governor Zuwo would have a point here were regions not created beings. If the regions had come together to form atlasia, like US states did, then of course a region shouldn't be dissolved unless it so wished. But the key point is they didn't come together, atlasia created the regions. Regions are far more like counties than states.

Now this is nullification talk. The US constitution is a compact of its people, not the states. However, it preserves the rights of the state's a check on, and preventative against, the aggregation of too much power in the hands of the Federal Govenment. That is why it requires the consent of the states affected, to deprive it of its representation in the US Senate for instance, essentially a unanimous consent requirement.  Would you like to try again without reading from the John C. Calhoun/Jefferson Davis manual to the US Constitution, silly bore.

Also, I'm motioning for cloture.

Seconded

Silly Tyrion, cloture doesn't require a second.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Status: A vote can be commenced this afternoon at 02:59:59 pm

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

There is no vote presently underway on this. The earliest is in about three hours.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

That is why I normally don't post specific times, but instead lengths of times. The reason I didn't just say the number of hours until, was because I wanted to be specific so Matt would know exactly when.

This problem gets even more acute during Daylight Savings Time.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

AYE

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I think next step is cloture vote as I recall.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

NAY

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Come on Matt.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

NAY


Good Heaven's People

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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