How would you solve the student debt crisis?

[muon2]

I think King Sweden makes a good point. Private schools should not be treated the same as public schools. I think that it's particularly troubling when students go to private schools without clear educational goals and are then surprised at the debt load and lack of employment available to pay it back. It's different for students who have the means from savings or parental income, or those who are studying for a career with solid job prospects. That said I think there is value in states providing need-based grants to students seeking to stay in the state for college as part of an overall financial package.

For students looking at public universities, but are worried about debt, I recommend community college for the first couple of years. Most courses, especially required courses, ohlne would take in the first two years can be found at community colleges. I know a number of students in the last decade who managed costs very well this way.

[muon2]

For students looking at public universities, but are worried about debt, I recommend community college for the first couple of years. Most courses, especially required courses, ohlne would take in the first two years can be found at community colleges. I know a number of students in the last decade who managed costs very well this way.

Do you think that students at community colleges have access to anything resembling the academic or social support available to the most successful students at four-year public schools? It's difficult to find data that shows how comparable students perform at different kinds of institutions because the student populations are so different. I know that many students do very well by starting out at a community college, but I'm skeptical of the idea that it provides a comparable learning environment for students.

Also, for what it's worth, it's difficult for me to put my personal experience aside: The best thing that happened to me when I left for college was that I was surrounded by other highly motivated students. I know plenty of people who have enrolled at community colleges, and all of them complained about how the lack of seriousness from (at least some of) their classmates affected their studies. In the most extreme cases, this extended to students involved in violent crime and gang activity on campus. In other words, some of our community colleges in New York State are beginning to the kinds of problems that we usually associate with the worst urban high schools. If debt were my only alternative to avoiding that, I would take on the debt.

I can speak to my experience teaching for over two decades at a non-flagship state university. We actively tracked our majors and included whether they were transfers from CCs or were native freshmen. Transfers were distributed from urban (Chicago/Cook), suburban and rural CCs. In our department it was about half from each group and there were no measurable differences in academic performance. In terms of motivation we found that the CC transfers were more likely to immediately continue studies in our MS or PhD program, so they were certainly not at a disadvantage in that regard either.

[muon2]

For students looking at public universities, but are worried about debt, I recommend community college for the first couple of years. Most courses, especially required courses, ohlne would take in the first two years can be found at community colleges. I know a number of students in the last decade who managed costs very well this way.

Do you think that students at community colleges have access to anything resembling the academic or social support available to the most successful students at four-year public schools? It's difficult to find data that shows how comparable students perform at different kinds of institutions because the student populations are so different. I know that many students do very well by starting out at a community college, but I'm skeptical of the idea that it provides a comparable learning environment for students.

Also, for what it's worth, it's difficult for me to put my personal experience aside: The best thing that happened to me when I left for college was that I was surrounded by other highly motivated students. I know plenty of people who have enrolled at community colleges, and all of them complained about how the lack of seriousness from (at least some of) their classmates affected their studies. In the most extreme cases, this extended to students involved in violent crime and gang activity on campus. In other words, some of our community colleges in New York State are beginning to the kinds of problems that we usually associate with the worst urban high schools. If debt were my only alternative to avoiding that, I would take on the debt.

I can speak to my experience teaching for over two decades at a non-flagship state university. We actively tracked our majors and included whether they were transfers from CCs or were native freshmen. Transfers were distributed from urban (Chicago/Cook), suburban and rural CCs. In our department it was about half from each group and there were no measurable differences in academic performance. In terms of motivation we found that the CC transfers were more likely to immediately continue studies in our MS or PhD program, so they were certainly not at a disadvantage in that regard either.

I was just reading Robert Putnam's new(ish) book, Our Kids, and I just saw some numbers that made me want to bump this conversation.

Among students who enroll at community colleges, no fewer than 81% say that they intend to complete a four-year degree. The number who actually do is only 12%.

Those are terrible odds. I don't care how hard-working or committed or prepared a student is, it ought to give them pause. If a four-year school gives them a better chance at graduating, there's a good chance that five-figure loans are worth improving those odds, at least on average. There might be circumstances under which attending community college makes sense, but I'm not sure how you can tout it as a solution for more than a handful of students in good conscience.

Interesting statistics. The numbers I based my comments on were from those CC students who had transferred to a 4-year, and they had success rates similar to students who started at the 4-year. Your source would seem to suggest that a large population who attend CCs and think they will go to 4-year schools never in fact transfer to a 4-year school. If they did transfer then they would fall in the population I described with comparable outcomes. So what are the factors stopping the CC students from transferring to 4-year schools to complete a degree?