SENATE BILL: Ukrainian Technical, Economical and Military Aid (Debating) (user search)

Quote from: VP windjammer on July 06, 2014, 07:02:04 AM

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This amendment Tyrion.

1) Why deleting the Preamble, Tyrion? There is nothing controversial. Maybe you're openly backing the annexation of Crimea by Russia?

2) Why deleting section 1? I don't see how this is controversial.

3) Why deleting the "unity part". How is this controversial? Are you supporting a divided Ukraine? What's the problem with this part?

4) What's the problem with the former section 2 point 2? In which way helping the Ukrainians to face the problems with gaz is controversial?

5) And finallyn, why cutting the aid by 1B? 1 Billion represents absolutely nothing in term of spending for Atlasia (our spending= something like 2000B???). But for Ukraine, it is important 1B.
So why constantly cutting the aid? I honestly just see a reason: Ukrainophobia.

I would like to remind all of you, and especially you Tyrion, that Russia is far worse than Israel on minority matters. Yep, Russia passed recently anti gay laws for isntance. And ti's better not to be in ethnic minority (like Georgian,...) if you want to save your life. Russia is far worse than Israel for that.

Considering you voted for the TNF plan, completely ending any economic relations with Israel (=economic sanctions) few weeks ago, a plan much more agressive than the Lumine's plan. So I would like to know, why constantly voting for these amendments, especially because you supported something much more aggressive against Israel few weeks ago?

And please,
1) The Ukrainian resistance isn't nazi.
2) And yep, spending can be hijacked by criminals. That doesn't mean cutting is the right thing to do. The best is to improve a bit (like watching seriously how this would be spent,...). I mean, every government spending can be hijacked by corrupt people. Does that mean the atlasian government spendings shall be cut entirely? I'm sure, considering your party, you don't support that Wink

.

I don't understand your concerns with this bill:
1) There is no miitary intervention
2) and there isn't even economic sanctions against Russia.

Thanks for the clarification, Mr. Vice President.

1) The preamble isn't necessary for the body of the bill to work. Consider it neutral, in the sense that I'd vote for "good" amendment (meaning one that has parts I would support) with and without that preamble being cut out.

2) I'm not sure why Atlasia needs to be policing every case of international corruption. I certainly agree with the sentiment that corruption is bad, but we don't always need to be policing everything. With that said, if this specific clause passed, I would not lose any sleep.

3) I do support unity, but that phrase is unnecessarily vague, and more narrative than legislation. In other words, it's something I'd say this legislation is intended to do regardless of whether it's in the text or not. But, again, it being in the text wouldn't make me lose any sleep.

4) We should not be in the business of managing Ukraine's economy. Atlasia hasn't reached energy independence from Russia; why should we expect a much smaller nation to be able to do so? If it serves Ukraine's best interests to acquire whatever they need from Russia, so be it. As long as it's their decision, I frankly don't think it matters.

5) Certainly, $1 billion is not going to make or break the budget, but I don't really see any particular need for this in the budget. I would have supported a larger cut, if offered.

Russia is a dreadful country for civil rights; don't get me wrong. But nothing that the particular amendment cut out had much to do with Russia being, to put it bluntly, a terrible excuse for a developed country.

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