Greek Referendum on IMF/Troika deal

[Hydera]

ND+Potami+PASOK+KIDSO+Union of centrists = 40%

So with a floor of literally 40%. The side against another bailout might want to pray that they get people who support them to vote.

Which option are unemployed greeks going to take?

[Hydera]

KKE voted against approving the referendum?

Are they going to be contrarian even towards their own beliefs?

[Hydera]

What happens to Greece, and to the Eurozone,  if Greece gets no more cash from its lenders, so it can only spend what it takes in? What I am asking is assuming Greece never pays a dime back of its debt, but gets no more loans, what happens? What percent of its spending at the moment is red ink? I mean at the end of the day, nobody can force Greece to repay anything, but on the other hand, Greece can't force anybody to lend it more money either. So that to me seems the stalemate endgame.

Greece leaves the euro and would immanently have to cut most of their expenses to what their tax revenues actually support. The moment its red ink is when its basically no money spent because theres no money at all.

What happens? Greece will have to print money, which means it has to leave the Euro. Officially, no one wants to get there. Unofficially, Schäuble and his fellow austerity hawks seem bent on doing anything in their power to make sure it happens.

lol "austerity hawks". Seriously who's going to give greece money for their spending plans that they should never of increase year by year since joining the euro?

I seriously can't stand people who think austerity is some thing that meanies do and theres an unlimited cache of money waiting for somebody if they just declare "Austerity = Over"

[Hydera]

So we are apparently more pro-Troika in Sweden than they are in Germany. Who would have guessed.

Finland:  Centre+TF+KD+SPP+KOK+ Some social democrats. Blame Greek governments.  Left Alliance = Blame Troika, Most Social democrats and Greens make up the "equally" and D/K responses.

Denmark:  Blue bloc+most social democrats blame greek governments, Blame troika = Socialistisk Folkeparti voters. rest of red bloc voters split between "equally" and D/K

Sweden: Those who blame greek government = Alliansen+SD+Some social democrats. Blame Troika are from Left Party, Most social democrats+Greens split between Equally and D/K

Germany: CDU/CSU+AFD+FDP= 51%+some of SDP = Greece to Blame, Those who blame troika are Die Linke voters, Most of SPD + Greens = Equally

GB:  Mostly conservative voters who say greek government to blame. the "equally" voters mostly labour Blame Troika= greens+snp.  D/K 19% = libdem+UKIP voters

France: Mostly Hollande voters who think troika+both are to blame, Mostly sarkozy voters say greek past/present governments, 17% mainly the FN voters who are d/k.

Wow this is easily predictable. The Left and greens blames troika. Centre-left is split. While Centre-right understands unlike them that its mainly greek governments to blame for the crisis.

[Hydera]

Well, I understand Germans, they want Nazis in power in Greece, at last, people will stop singling them out for Hitler.

Same for their collaborationist Danish friends.

We have as much influence on this as you do, of course we do stand to lose money on a Grexit, as we bought Greek bonds in our great solidarity with the Greeks and EZ. Which are why I support a French takeover of the Greek debt, which would make everyone happy. Greece get rid of its debt, Germany don't need to pay again to Greece, France can put its money where it mouth is and we doesn't lose money on a Greek collapse. Everyone are happy, including the bankers who now can see how France will cover every future Greek loans.

France and Italy need to step up and give their own money to pay for greece. Otherwise stop wasting everybody's time by trying to force the rest of the EZ to pay up for greece when they have their own electorates to answer to.

[Hydera]

Lew is "encouraged by reports of some progress" in Brussels at an emergency summit of eurozone leaders about Greece.  Lew noted that Greece is showing signs of "political will to implement difficult reforms."

Much more hardline party will be elected to rip up the 3rd bailout.

Its easier to just kick greece out already.

[Hydera]

Kamnenos said he's had enough, and other Athens sources call the draft humiliating and disastrous.

Even German media - in this case Spiegel Online - calls the Eurogroup's proposal a "deliberate   humiliation of Greece", designed to make an agreement with the Greek government impossible.

Spiegel has sided with greece for the last few years.

Not going to convince anybody.

[Hydera]

Somebody please tell my why greeks are angry that germany doesn't want to give them money.

They voted NOT agree to the bailout plan last week and now their angry that their not getting a bailout.

[Hydera]

Bild reports that  Tsipras  will ask for a transitional government followed by a snap election.

Probably false, if it was true anyway that means grexit is bound to happen.

[Hydera]

Getting really annoyed at Greece's clown tactics.

Give us money!

You never should have loaned us money!

Give us more money!

It was wrong of you to loan us money like that.

Give us money!

You only loaned us that money to benefit yourself

Some more money?

Don't expect us to be grateful. You forced those loans on us and only did it for your own benefit.

More loans!

We can't pay back those loans.

More loans!

We have had a vote and decided that NO we won't want any more loans.

Can you give us some more loans?

[Hydera]

Looks like France and Germany is playing a good cop bad cop game on Greece.

France is free to dump 300 billion of its own euros for greece, nobody will complain in fact the germans would be happy that they aren't on the hook for a 3rd bailout that greeks will half-ass and then come back the next year asking for more money.

[Hydera]

Sadly to our crimson friends this is the end of the austerity will "end" if we just say so! 
project.

[Hydera]

FT saying that SYRIZA's radical left, or about a third of its caucus, will vote no and will not resign unless Tsipras asks them to.

I wonder if Syriza splits into Syriza-A and Syriza-B with Syriza-B being the anti-austerity defectors while warming up to a grexit. Would be more popular than Syriza-B and joining with KKE and unofficial unwanted support from GD to leave the euro.

[Hydera]

What do germans think about the bailout deal greece has to implement?



57% Approve

22% say not hard enough

13% say too hard




Meanwhile schäuble's hard line stance is making him close to 2/3rd approval in Germany.

[Hydera]

How many years until Germany drop the EU pretense and starts calling EU the 4th Reich?

But don't you see? They're the real victims here. Those poor, poor Germans, robbed of their precious money by those lazy Greek moochers. And they even get insulted and called Nazis! This heartbreaking plight must stop.

#weareallgermans

According to opinion polls, 64 percent of Germans think Schäuble did a good job at the negotiations, and for Merkel that figure is 62 percent. (Source)

It's called democracy. The Syriza people have talked a lot about respecting democracy in the past days, but they need to understand that they are not the only democratically elected government in the EU. If the other Eurozone countries had held referendums on whether or not to approve the bailout, you can be sure that most Eurozone countries in Northern and Eastern Europe would have voted a strong #OXI to further bailouts.

The author's point is that the German people are suffering from collective delusion. These poll numbers just prove it further.

Agreed, the german people do not want their money going towards greece to pay for greece's past over-borrowing. And despite that, approve of schauble and merkel who capitulated to hollande who demanded an agreement.

the bailout should be ripped to sheds and germans not have to send their money away.

[Hydera]

Is it asking too much of the Germans that they try to educate themselves about the economic and social ramifications of their policy? Or better yet, is it asking too much of the German media that they stop feeding their viewers/readers with jingoistic propaganda, and start documenting what's actually going on in Greece?

They just want their money back.

Most germans only have an 18% confidence that the greek government would do what it promised in the deal this week.

And just 13% think the measures are "too-harsh" 57% say its enough, 22% say not enough.

If your country didn't want to fall into this situation, the debate should of been asked decades ago when the borrowing started being made. Not post-2008 when it was too late to debate the effectss.

[Hydera]

Is it asking too much of the Germans that they try to educate themselves about the economic and social ramifications of their policy? Or better yet, is it asking too much of the German media that they stop feeding their viewers/readers with jingoistic propaganda, and start documenting what's actually going on in Greece?

Nobody in Germany cares about what your opinion is. But I like it when you're butthurt so please continue.

Does nobody see a contrast?




I've been very disappointed with krugman recently, he doesn't understand there is a difference between borrowing for investments that grow the economy and pays back the debt by increasing future growth(AKA: WW2 era american spending). And pointless spending for clientism and votes(AKA Greece)

Krugman has created a terrible monster, a whole political spectrum that wants to spend just for the sake of spending.

Yet doesn't realize the country that overspent did worse than the one that didn't.