GOP Manages to Repeal Obamacare-Obama to veto repeal bill (user search)
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  GOP Manages to Repeal Obamacare-Obama to veto repeal bill (search mode)
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Author Topic: GOP Manages to Repeal Obamacare-Obama to veto repeal bill  (Read 4559 times)
Hillary pays minimum wage
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« on: January 09, 2016, 12:47:00 AM »

This needs to be done around Halloween time.  Keep it fresh in the voters' minds.
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Hillary pays minimum wage
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2016, 12:58:44 AM »

How in the world did this get past the filibuster? The 6+ Democrats who voted for cloture should be expelled and primaried.

Join us if you're unhappy with your party! Why do they have to agree with you? 30 of the 60 Democrats who voted for Obamacare have lost their jobs due to our right to vote.  Do you want your party to have less members in the senate?  I'm wondering if you even realize what's going on?
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Hillary pays minimum wage
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Posts: 716
United States


« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2016, 01:44:37 AM »

Join us if you're unhappy with your party! Why do they have to agree with you? 30 of the 60 Democrats who voted for Obamacare have lost their jobs due to our right to vote. Do you want your party to have less members in the senate?  I'm wondering if you even realize what's going on?
I decided to examine this claim, and concluded that using the most generous interpretation of it("lost their jobs" meaning either defeated for reelection or succeeded by a member of the other party) I came up with only 13 Senators losing their job. Honestly, though, I'm hesitant to include Evan Bayh or Tom Harkin in that, since either would have likely been reelected, and Max Baucus "lost his job" to become ambassador to China. So now we are down to 10 that could arguably qualify as having lost their jobs, a third of what you originally stated.

You can word it as PC as you want but the fact of the matter is that the names mentioned were more prominent names who couldn't afford embarrassing the party with a loss.  2010 wouldn't have been friendly to Bayh.  Baucus was toast even without Obamacare.  I'm surprised you didn't mention Kerry who is the only one I can see overcoming Obamacare but that's only because he's from MA.  Don't tell that to Martha Coakley though.  If it were an acceptable form of legislation with anyone other than Democrats, they'd still be in their offices. Again word it how you wish.
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Hillary pays minimum wage
Jr. Member
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Posts: 716
United States


« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2016, 02:13:41 AM »

How in the world did this get past the filibuster? The 6+ Democrats who voted for cloture should be expelled and primaried.

Join us if you're unhappy with your party! Why do they have to agree with you? 30 of the 60 Democrats who voted for Obamacare have lost their jobs due to our right to vote. 

Found a source for this claim: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/half-of-the-senators-who-voted-for-obamacare-wont-be-part-of-new-senate/article/2555721

But as it outlines, not everything is due to ObamaCare.

Lost reelection (Cool:

Begich
Pryor
Udall
Hagan
Landrieu
Feingold
Lincoln
Specter

Retired, replaced by a Republican (Cool:

Rockefeller
Baucus
Johnson
Harkin
Nelson
Dorgan
Bayh
Burris

Retired, initially replaced by republican, seat now held by democrat (1):

Kirk (MA)

Retired, replaced by a Democrat (10):

Webb
Lieberman
Kohl
Akaka
Bingaman
Dodd
Kerry
Kaufman
Conrad
Levin

Died in Office (3):

Byrd
Inouye
Lautenberg

The bottom two categories obviously had nothing to do with ObamaCare. Among the 17 in the Top 3, we have some special cases:

Appointed Senator who never had an intention of running for a formal term: Kirk (MA)
Retired despite being likely to win re-election: Harkin, Dorgan, Bayh
Lost in Primary: Specter

So, that takes it down to 12. I could technically also nix Baucus because he was replaced by a Democrat for a few months after he was appointed as an ambassador, then Daines was elected as the formal replacement in November, largely because the appointed democrat couldn't run due to a plagarism scandal, leaving a gadfly candidate with the nomination. But I'll let that one slide because Baucus announced he wouldn't run for re-election months before the appointment, and wasn't safe for re-election by any means. And a complete, no-holds barred devil's advocate response would result in nixing all the retirements, because none of them were completely hopeless in terms of getting re-elected. That gets us down to 7.

So, nice try, but no. Even being as generous as possible, we only get to 17, not 30.

 

Yes when things look grim for re-election, politicians seem to suddenly say they're retiring or "want to spend more time with their families."  Of the 30 names mentioned, over half would have been voted out.  Retiring is a way to forfeit in order to save embarrassment.  I wonder why Esby loves politicians so much instead of holding the view that they aren't to be trusted when they speak. 
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Hillary pays minimum wage
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Posts: 716
United States


« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2016, 09:46:03 PM »

Yes when things look grim for re-election, politicians seem to suddenly say they're retiring or "want to spend more time with their families."  Of the 30 names mentioned, over half would have been voted out.  Retiring is a way to forfeit in order to save embarrassment.  I wonder why Esby loves politicians so much instead of holding the view that they aren't to be trusted when they speak.  

Rockefeller was really old and had already served for 30 years. His resignation sounds normal.
Tim Johnson was also old and had held public offices of various types for over 35 years straight. Once again, pretty reasonable to think he just wanted to retire.
Tom Harkin - Held office for a whopping 40 years. And he is 75+ years old. Again, legitimate retirement.
Max Baucus - Served in Congress for almost 40 years. It's not unreasonable to think he may have not wanted to be a Senator anymore, especially considering how Congress has been since 2011.
Ben Nelson - 74 years old, held one office or another since 1991, so 20+ years. Again, reasonable.
Byron Dorgan, held office(s) for over 40 years and current 73 years old. Reasonable!
Roland Burris held various offices for over 30 years and is now 78. Very reasonable!

The only plausible person on that list is Evan Bayh, who is only 60 but had served for almost 25 years in various public offices. It's not unreasonable to think that maybe he wanted to do other things after all that time. Other than that, all of them had been working in government for many decades and were pretty old at retirement. To say it was a strategic decision is foolish and needs to be backed up to have any chance at helping you here.

Politicians are not machines. These guys had been in government for a long, long time and probably just wanted to spend the rest of their days relaxing or doing something else. So maybe the 'strategic retirement' excuse would have worked in another argument with different politicians, but these guys were pretty ripe for retirement.

How are you so naive?  Politicians have always been greedy and hungry for more power.  There's just the coincidence that so many wanted to "spend time with family" all of a sudden just months after passing a controversial bill that cost many of them their jobs?  The older politicians are even worse with their filthy devouring for more power.  You must be the first and only person to trust politicians.  You are the reason we need term limits Virginia because it's voters like you who keep dinosaurs like them in power.
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