FY 2015 Budget (Passed)

[Adam Griffin]

Furthermore, how can we actually be sure that the Justice Department is "grossly over-funded"?

When you have the resources to pursue cases that even by the Supreme Court's own admission appear to lack any merit whatsoever or that break zero laws, it's pretty obvious.

[Lumine]

Ah, so we should just cripple an entire Department because you and others don't like that Zuwo and Rpryor are trying to enforce the laws of Atlasia? Brillant logic, I must say.

[Lief 🗽]

Prosecuting someone for a crime they were pardoned for is not "enforcing the laws of Atlasia," at least based on my understanding of our great country's laws.

[Lumine]

There are reasonable doubts on the actions of the former President, the Justice Department has found them compelling enough to act, the Supreme Court has allowed the case to move forward, and a jury will decide, period. I find it rather surprising that a situation like that would be enough for people to wish to cripple our Justice Department.

[Adam Griffin]

Ah, so we should just cripple an entire Department because you and others don't like that Zuwo and Rpryor are trying to enforce the laws of Atlasia? Brillant logic, I must say.

I don't believe we have any discretion in whether or not to hear a trial. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. If the Justice department wishes to proceed with this despite the concerns raised we will assign a justice to preside.

Unless the Justice department decides otherwise and the President changes his mind, we'll have to go ahead and hear this case. We'll assign a presiding justice.

Alright, I guess we're going to proceed here.

Pssst: that's court speak for "you're conducting a witch-hunt with no legal basis and if we had a choice, we'd throw this out".

[Lumine]

I would appreciate it if we could keep this outside the budget discussions and on the appropriate thread, so I will just note that putting words on the mouth of the Supreme Court is certainly an accurate, honest and brilliantly persuasive line of argument.

[Adam Griffin]

I would appreciate it if we could keep this outside the budget discussions and on the appropriate thread, so I will just note that putting words on the mouth of the Supreme Court is certainly an accurate, honest and brilliantly persuasive line of argument.

It was abundantly clear that there was doubt about whether the case should have been taken in the first place, but they had no option. You, likewise, are putting words in their mouth by trying to lend the case credibility with the statement of "the Supreme Court has allowed the case to move forward", despite them having no choice. It's also obviously relevant to the proposed amendment in question because you posed the question as to why it was necessary in the first place.

[ZuWo]

It's obviously up to the other Senators to decide if they want to feed our resident trolls Lief and Griffin but cutting the budget of the DoJ will have no impact whatsoever on the number of cases and trials brought before the SC - not now and in the future.

[Lief 🗽]

I find it very disturbing that the Attorney General is poking his head into the Senate to insult a sitting Senator and regional representative.

[ZuWo]

You have called those serving in the DoJ buffoons and worse, just to put things in perspective. Your persistent trolling, which is the reason for your poor job approval ratings, needs to be called out.

Anyway, go ahead with your proposal to cripple the DoJ. The impacts will be felt by my successor, who's probably going to be someone closely affiliated with your party.

[TNF]

The level of McCarthyite witch-hunting this pathetic administration is willing to engage in for political gain is disgusting.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I join the concerns of just making blanket statements about how the DoJ is 'grossly over-funded'... can the Senators in favour of this quantify it?

I'm not opposed in principle, but I'd want a hell of a lot more support evidence.

[Lief 🗽]

A certain level of decorum and respect should be expected in the halls of the Senate, Mr. Attorney General. As for approval ratings, a ridiculously inactive cabinet secretary who should be impeached currently has approvals in the high 60s, so I don't pay much attention to those. The People elected me to stand up to the partisan overreach coming out of this administration, and I intend to do so.

[Lumine]

Certain level of respect that this administration has not recieved from you, Senator, same case with Senator TNF. That you oppose what the administration does is one thing, another is the constant attempt to score political points with ludicrous proposal, not to mention the persistent name calling of several officers (and I'm used to that, but that doesn't make it respectful).

[Lief 🗽]

Perhaps if the Justice Department were as concerned with the safety of opposition Senators as it is with removing as many Labor voters as possible from the voter rolls, I would be less critical of it and its officers. But to come into the Senate and call a sitting Senator and regional legislator "trolls" is beyond the pale, and far beyond any criticisms I have leveled against you or your administration on the Senate floor. I understand that your administration would rather take money from the poor and the sick than an over-active and increasingly partisan branch of your administration, but that is absolutely no reason to engage in personal attacks more befitting a schoolyard than the People's Chamber.

Anyway, the purpose of this thread is to discuss the budget, not for the administration to air its partisan grievances. I hope we can return to that discussion.

[bore]

Senators a vote is now open on Lief's amendment, please vote aye nay or abstain

[ZuWo]

Perhaps if the Justice Department were as concerned with the safety of opposition Senators as it is with removing as many Labor voters as possible from the voter rolls, I would be less critical of it and its officers. But to come into the Senate and call a sitting Senator and regional legislator "trolls" is beyond the pale, and far beyond any criticisms I have leveled against you or your administration on the Senate floor. I understand that your administration would rather take money from the poor and the sick than an over-active and increasingly partisan branch of your administration, but that is absolutely no reason to engage in personal attacks more befitting a schoolyard than the People's Chamber.

You have repeatedly stated that the DoJ is specifically and unfairly targeting members of your party. You have claimed that we are prosecuting Atlasians because of their political orientation. In fact, this is the most serious allegation that can be made against law enforcement authorities in a democratic state.

You are right, that I called you and Griffin "trolls" was inadequate and I regret that; my words should have been much harsher.

[Lief 🗽]

Aye, on the amendment.

It is clear that the DOJ is currently grossly over-funded. Because the Attorney General denies engaging in a partisan witch hunt, I have no other explanation for the parade of frivolous cases they have embarked on, including against citizens who are clearly innocent. These frivolous cases have been criticized by citizens from across the aisle, including the IDS speaker and a sitting court justice.

[Maxwell]

If we can find ways to actually run the judiciary more efficiently, than obviously I would support an amendment lowering spending, but this isn't about making the justice department more efficient in terms of expenses, this is about actively hurting the justice department to make some dumb statement. Hopefully the Senate rejects this amendment.

[Senator Cris]

Nay

[Poirot]

In case Senators don't read the Senate protest and analysis thread, I would like to link the remarks of a concerned citizen on the budget numbers.

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=19934.msg4481077#msg4481077

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I don't support a politically motivated move against the functions of Government, which are important, any more than any other politically motivated moves.

I don't support the amendment.

NAY

[bore]

Nay

Like practically everyone else in atlasia I think the prosecution against tyrion is misguided, and I really hope he is acquitted.

That said, I think there is a strong partition behind laws dealing with atlasia and laws dealing with the game, and I don't think we should interfere with that partition, for the same reason simfan is not obligated to be on every jury.

[SWE]

Nay

[TNF]

Aye