Is Trump's immigration policy (and support for it) fundamentally racist?

[Goldwater]

It is reasonable (but not particularly productive) to discuss whether Trump's policies are fundamentally racist or not. It is simply absurd to say, or imply, that borders are inherently wrong.

Perhaps, though it's worth asking what people think would be so awful about Open Borders (TM). Is it just that people who SHOULDN'T BE HERE might be here? Is that the fundamental argument?

Saying that certain groups of people don't belong here (such as, for example, Muslims) is obviously ridiculous, but there are legitimate security reasons to not want certain individuals (such as, for example, a terrorist) in your nation. So, regardless of how liberal the immigration laws are, you need some form of border security and regulations, unless you are arguing completely against the concept of a nation-state.

[Slander and/or Libel]

It is reasonable (but not particularly productive) to discuss whether Trump's policies are fundamentally racist or not. It is simply absurd to say, or imply, that borders are inherently wrong.

Perhaps, though it's worth asking what people think would be so awful about Open Borders (TM). Is it just that people who SHOULDN'T BE HERE might be here? Is that the fundamental argument?

Saying that certain groups of people don't belong here (such as, for example, Muslims) is obviously ridiculous, but there are legitimate security reasons to not want certain individuals (such as, for example, a terrorist) in your nation. So, regardless of how liberal the immigration laws are, you need some form of border security and regulations, unless you are arguing completely against the concept of a nation-state.

Thanks, that's a good, substantive answer! Not trying to be sarcastic, I really do appreciate the engagement.

So, that seems to be based on a positive obligation on the part of the federal government to safeguard the safety of its citizens, right? I don't mean to expand the topic into stuff like whether the government should extend that obligation into screening people already in the country, like citizens, in the same way, and why or why not, but I'm trying to get my hands around the whole argument.

So, say, some kind of cursory criminal background check? Identify verification at the border? Let's say there were some kind of system whereby we gave a quick check to people's backgrounds in their country of origin. If they raise some red flags (to be determined, but the details aren't important for my purposes right now), then detain them, remand them to custody in the country they're coming from, whatever.

Saying we have that exception, what's the problem with the borders then being more or less open?

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

A nation has to put it's own citizens first.  For instance, China has a problem with companies hiring foreigners who aren't qualified for the job.  And China has every right to send them back.

I believe that China is within its rights to send illegal immigrants, a large portion of whom are white if not the majority, back to the countries they came from.  Just like America has the right to send illegal immigrants, regardless of ethnicity, back to their home country. 

[John Dule]

It is reasonable (but not particularly productive) to discuss whether Trump's policies are fundamentally racist or not. It is simply absurd to say, or imply, that borders are inherently wrong.

Perhaps, though it's worth asking what people think would be so awful about Open Borders (TM). Is it just that people who SHOULDN'T BE HERE might be here? Is that the fundamental argument?

I'd be all for open borders if there was no welfare in this country. However, if your policy is that there are minimal obstacles to entering the country, and that upon entering you become eligible for food stamps, Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security, free college, free health care, or any of the other free stuff Democrats are promising, then you'll incentivize mass immigration into an already bloated system that won't be able to support the new arrivals. It doesn't take a genius to realize that the American welfare system can't also support the entire population of Central America.

Then again, of course, there's the fact that open borders would flood the country with cheap labor, driving down wages for native-born Americans. Even if you set a minimum wage, you have millions of migrants working off-the-books for companies that can pay them a quarter of what Americans would demand. Open borders is just another race-to-the-bottom policy that will further impoverish American workers. It's a Koch Brothers wet dream. And the fact that the corporate masters who control the Democratic Party have conned their followers into thinking that this is some kind of "social justice" issue speaks volumes to how gullible Millennial Twitter activists are, and how detached the party has become from its roots in organized labor.

[Goldwater]

So, say, some kind of cursory criminal background check? Identify verification at the border? Let's say there were some kind of system whereby we gave a quick check to people's backgrounds in their country of origin. If they raise some red flags (to be determined, but the details aren't important for my purposes right now), then detain them, remand them to custody in the country they're coming from, whatever.

Saying we have that exception, what's the problem with the borders then being more or less open?

I don't think I would really have any issues with this hypothetical system, actually. I suppose someone more conservative than me on this issue would have to answer that question.

[HisGrace]

I think so, largely because his proposals revolved around stopping non-white immigration and in particular certain kinds of non-white immigration (Hispanics). I don't hear conservatives freaking out about all the Asians coming here for instance, probably because they aren't that bigoted against Asians for the most part, mostly just blacks, Hispanics, and sometimes Jews.

All borders are rooted in some form of fear of outsiders.

This is a dubious assertion. We have a border with Canada, but no one is afraid of Canadians.

[Green Line]

Lol no.  Preventing illegal immigrants from entering the country & deporting those who do enter is standard policy in almost every other country in the world.  If anything, Trump's policy is one of the most liberal.

[urutzizu]

Lol no.  Preventing illegal immigrants from entering the country & deporting those who do enter is standard policy in almost every other country in the world.  If anything, Trump's policy is one of the most liberal.

Indeed. In no European country is there a serious discussion on whether one should not detain people who cross borders illegally (we even have laws to put them in regular jails, not just detention centers.) Nowhere are people discussing whether to abolish our Border Control Agencies. Our debate is on whether or not they should drown in the Mediterranean. American progressives want to copy everything we have in Europe (gun laws, health care, free college tuition), but they are too naive to understand that to have such a welfare state you cannot just tolerate massive amounts of people crossing the border illegally, or these systems would never be sustainable. They would need to copy European immigration policies as well (like the Border wall in Ceuta, sound familiar?) but you never hear them talking about that do you?