Trump & Russia effect on 2020

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Oh, Democrats will almost certainly bring it up. I would be surprised if it didn't backfire spectacularly or had any impact, though.

Serious question how is it in RW world foreign powers donating to the Clinton Foundation (which is a charity) is enough to make Hillary a crook but Trump an his team constantly lying about meeting the Russian ambassador, the RNC platform on Ukraine is changed an reportably by Trump's orders, his over the top defense of Putin, an his decade long rumored ties to Russian oligarchs not even raise an eyebrow

-Why are you supporting risking WWIII over Ukraine for no reason? Obama didn't, and, for good reason, neither does the current Prez. Trump's defenses of Putin have the benefit of being true, something not shared by most amateur Putinologist criticisms of the man. This is surprising, as Trump tends to lie about everything, even little and obvious things.

The Clinton Foundation is just the Clintons' version of the Trump Foundation, but on a far larger scale. Both orgs are sleazy to the extreme.

Trump's ties with Russian oligarchs are, firstly, so non-existent as for there to be no Trump Tower in Moscow, second, were encouraged by the U.S. press for the entire decade of the 2000s.

Who's funding this mad Russophobia, anyway? Who benefit from it? It's certainly not good for the U.S.

Why is Putin risking WWIII by murdering civilians in Syria and shooting at US plans? Funny how you think Putin's crimes are not worth mentioning the the US defending Ukraine sovereignty is a crime

Why was Hillary risking WWIII by putting a no-fly zone over Syria to shoot down Russian planes?

Why are you using pathetic hyperbole to defend Putin's atrocities in Syria?

-So you're saying ISIS should take over Syria?

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Beet, you said invaded, not annexed. Those interventions count under most reasonable definitions.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Oh, Democrats will almost certainly bring it up. I would be surprised if it didn't backfire spectacularly or had any impact, though.

Serious question how is it in RW world foreign powers donating to the Clinton Foundation (which is a charity) is enough to make Hillary a crook but Trump an his team constantly lying about meeting the Russian ambassador, the RNC platform on Ukraine is changed an reportably by Trump's orders, his over the top defense of Putin, an his decade long rumored ties to Russian oligarchs not even raise an eyebrow

-Why are you supporting risking WWIII over Ukraine for no reason? Obama didn't, and, for good reason, neither does the current Prez. Trump's defenses of Putin have the benefit of being true, something not shared by most amateur Putinologist criticisms of the man. This is surprising, as Trump tends to lie about everything, even little and obvious things.

The Clinton Foundation is just the Clintons' version of the Trump Foundation, but on a far larger scale. Both orgs are sleazy to the extreme.

Trump's ties with Russian oligarchs are, firstly, so non-existent as for there to be no Trump Tower in Moscow, second, were encouraged by the U.S. press for the entire decade of the 2000s.

Who's funding this mad Russophobia, anyway? Who benefit from it? It's certainly not good for the U.S.

Why is Putin risking WWIII by murdering civilians in Syria and shooting at US plans? Funny how you think Putin's crimes are not worth mentioning the the US defending Ukraine sovereignty is a crime

-Russia hasn't shot at US planes, enough alternative facts. RU's Syria intervention is no more a crime than the U.S.'s is in Iraq. Both are equally justified by the same circumstances.

[Beet]

No one gives a sh_t who "invades" another country without intention to annex territory. The US has done that plenty of times, so we're no better. One thing we haven't done though, is gone all-out imperialist and tried to acquire land through conquest. That would be a gross violation of international norms.

The hysterical WWIII red herring is absurd, and will never happen. Attacking North Korea, which has not invaded anyone (conquest or otherwise), is more likely to start WWIII than standing up to Russia.

[Mr. Smith]

No effect, unless Russia starts reaching into Western Europe...maybe Poland if generous.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Did the Mexican War not occur? And how did the U.S. take possession of the Northern Marianas, anyway?

[Lord Admirale]

Oh, Democrats will almost certainly bring it up. I would be surprised if it didn't backfire spectacularly or had any impact, though.

Serious question how is it in RW world foreign powers donating to the Clinton Foundation (which is a charity) is enough to make Hillary a crook but Trump an his team constantly lying about meeting the Russian ambassador, the RNC platform on Ukraine is changed an reportably by Trump's orders, his over the top defense of Putin, an his decade long rumored ties to Russian oligarchs not even raise an eyebrow

-Why are you supporting risking WWIII over Ukraine for no reason? Obama didn't, and, for good reason, neither does the current Prez. Trump's defenses of Putin have the benefit of being true, something not shared by most amateur Putinologist criticisms of the man. This is surprising, as Trump tends to lie about everything, even little and obvious things.

The Clinton Foundation is just the Clintons' version of the Trump Foundation, but on a far larger scale. Both orgs are sleazy to the extreme.

Trump's ties with Russian oligarchs are, firstly, so non-existent as for there to be no Trump Tower in Moscow, second, were encouraged by the U.S. press for the entire decade of the 2000s.

Who's funding this mad Russophobia, anyway? Who benefit from it? It's certainly not good for the U.S.

Why is Putin risking WWIII by murdering civilians in Syria and shooting at US plans? Funny how you think Putin's crimes are not worth mentioning the the US defending Ukraine sovereignty is a crime

Why was Hillary risking WWIII by putting a no-fly zone over Syria to shoot down Russian planes?

Why are you using pathetic hyperbole to defend Putin's atrocities in Syria?

You avoided my question.

[Lord Admirale]

Oh, Democrats will almost certainly bring it up. I would be surprised if it didn't backfire spectacularly or had any impact, though.

Serious question how is it in RW world foreign powers donating to the Clinton Foundation (which is a charity) is enough to make Hillary a crook but Trump an his team constantly lying about meeting the Russian ambassador, the RNC platform on Ukraine is changed an reportably by Trump's orders, his over the top defense of Putin, an his decade long rumored ties to Russian oligarchs not even raise an eyebrow

Because most Americans view Saudi Arabia with a negative shade in their eyes. If Saudi Arabia gives you money, most people don't see that as a good thing. Secondly, whats so bad about meeting a foreign ambassador? Third, when was his """"over the top defense"""" of Putin? The most I've heard is "I don't know Putin," not sure how that's an over the top defense though.

I'd like some evidence  for these claims. These are some over the top allegations :/

Why is Saudi Arabia worse than Russia? Saudi Arabia has not shot down airliners, invaded foreign countries, or hacked Americans. Even their record on women's rights is improving, not that Trump supporters give a crap about that. And even if you do hate Saudi Arabia for some unjustified reason, Trump has approved arms sales to Saudi Arabia that had been blocked by Obama for human rights reasons.

For someone who calls their self a liberal and goes as far as to call Trump a fascist, you sure do like Saudi Arabia. Just keep ignoring all the gays being thrown off buildings and women being tortured for being raped.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Bernie people: "The DNC doesn't seem to be neutral in this primary"
Hillary people: "Conspiracy theorists!"
DKIM verified e-mails show that the DNC was rather biased
Hillary people: "RUSSIA HACKED OUR ELECTIONS!!!!!!!!!"

[ApatheticAustrian]

only people who think of putin and the russians as unhinged madmen suggest, pushing back in the ukraine and syria would start world war 3.

we are hearing all the time, no american would fight for the baltic nations and the idea that the US would use nuclear power cause of eastern europe is often - correctly - ridiculed.

but....why do we think of ourself as so much better or saner that only we would compromise but russia is always on the brink to kill millions, if feeling slighted in any way?

people pursuing and spreading that theory are imho real russophobes.

[Hindsight was 2020]

only people who think of putin and the russians as unhinged madmen suggest, pushing back in the ukraine and syria would start world war 3.

we are hearing all the time, no american would fight for the baltic nations and the idea that the US would use nuclear power cause of eastern europe is often - correctly - ridiculed.

but....why do we think of ourself as so much better or saner that only we would compromise but russia is always on the brink to kill millions, if feeling slighted in any way?

people pursuing and spreading that theory are imho real russophobes.

Or alt-right trolls who think of Putin as the literal white knight of Europe who will help us annihilate Muslims

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Oh, Democrats will almost certainly bring it up. I would be surprised if it didn't backfire spectacularly or had any impact, though.

Serious question how is it in RW world foreign powers donating to the Clinton Foundation (which is a charity) is enough to make Hillary a crook but Trump an his team constantly lying about meeting the Russian ambassador, the RNC platform on Ukraine is changed an reportably by Trump's orders, his over the top defense of Putin, an his decade long rumored ties to Russian oligarchs not even raise an eyebrow

-Why are you supporting risking WWIII over Ukraine for no reason? Obama didn't, and, for good reason, neither does the current Prez. Trump's defenses of Putin have the benefit of being true, something not shared by most amateur Putinologist criticisms of the man. This is surprising, as Trump tends to lie about everything, even little and obvious things.

The Clinton Foundation is just the Clintons' version of the Trump Foundation, but on a far larger scale. Both orgs are sleazy to the extreme.

Trump's ties with Russian oligarchs are, firstly, so non-existent as for there to be no Trump Tower in Moscow, second, were encouraged by the U.S. press for the entire decade of the 2000s.

Who's funding this mad Russophobia, anyway? Who benefit from it? It's certainly not good for the U.S.

Why is Putin risking WWIII by murdering civilians in Syria and shooting at US plans? Funny how you think Putin's crimes are not worth mentioning the the US defending Ukraine sovereignty is a crime

-Russia hasn't shot at US planes, enough alternative facts. RU's Syria intervention is no more a crime than the U.S.'s is in Iraq. Both are equally justified by the same circumstances.

Correct, it's a war crime just like that George W. Bush was guilty of in invading Iraq.

[Inmate Trump]

Putin is as much a ruthless dictator that murders his own people as Obama was. Less, actually.

Clay is deranged, as typical for a Bush-lover who went for HRC.

My guess is that the Russia issue, if it is brought up will, if anything, hurt the Democrats, as it did in 2016, due to all sane people being frightened of fools seeking fame stoking Hitler-style xenophobia. I know for a fact lots of young pro-Bernie people considered HRC toxic for Her saber-rattling at the largest nuclear-armed power in the world.

I'm sorry. You just said that Obama was more of a murderous dictator than Putin is. Anything you said after that cannot be taken seriously.

Honestly how can you defend Putin? The man kills his own citizens and YES he IS a ruthless dictator. Do you really know so little of world affairs that you don't know this?

-No; I know infinitely more than you. Have you seen Putin's approval rating lately?

You know more than our intelligence agencies too, apparently.

Approval ratings? Are you joking? The man already has fake elections where he always wins. But you think his approval ratings are accurate?

However, I am well aware that the dictator's approval among Republicans is quite high. Which is telling.

[SCNCmod]

Seriously, how long will it take for people to realize Hillary ran an awful campaign and that it was her fault for losing?

By 2020, trying to play the Russia argument will just be flogging a dead horse.

Like Benghazi.

^^^This^^^  (That said I think Dems have learned that in 2020 you have to attack Trump on his inability of lead, lack of coherent policies... and why his policies don't work... ie cutting State dept yet huge increasing in military budget, etc)

[SCNCmod]

My question for Trump Defenders... Do you not find it odd that Trump has criticised virtually every US & World Leader... But Absolutely refuses to say anything critical of Putin?

(Even if his reasons are not illegal... and something as simple as he doesn't want to alienate the many Russians who invest in Trump Properties)...  Can we at least admit that the total lack of anything critical to this 1 leader is odd?

[Inmate Trump]

My question for Trump Defenders... Do you not find it odd that Trump has criticised virtually every US & World Leader... But Absolutely refuses to say anything critical of Putin?

(Even if his reasons are not illegal... and something as simple as he doesn't want to alienate the many Russians who invest in Trump Properties)...  Can we at least admit that the total lack of anything critical to this 1 leader is odd?

They can't.

Hell, most of them think Putin is great.

Does anyone else remember when Republicans stood up to tyrants? Now they only look up to them. They used to have some patriots among them.

[Mr. Morden]

However, I am well aware that the dictator's approval among Republicans is quite high. Which is telling.

Huh?  AFAIK, Putin's favorability #s among all demographic groups in the US are quite poor.  E.g.:

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2417

[Inmate Trump]

However, I am well aware that the dictator's approval among Republicans is quite high. Which is telling.

Huh?  AFAIK, Putin's favorability #s among all demographic groups in the US are quite poor.  E.g.:

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2417

I guess I should say his approval is much higher than it should be, and is rising.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/gop-russia-putin-support-232714

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/04/vladimir-putin-polls-better-with-republicans-than-obama-does-thats-not-unprecedented/?utm_term=.3414e4b3c5e8

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vladimir-putin-popularity-republicans_us_58518a3ce4b092f08686bd6e

http://www.newsweek.com/under-trump-american-approval-putin-grows-559502

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/12/14/poll-republican-attitudes-about-wikileaks-putin-have-changed-drastically/

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Clay displays his lack of knowledge about the world again. For Putin's victories are no more fake than LBJ's or Eisenhower's.

Clay, have you seen Putin's approval rating in Russia? Why isn't it just as high in the U.S.?

[Inmate Trump]

Clay displays his lack of knowledge about the world again. For Putin's victories are no more fake than LBJ's or Eisenhower's.

Clay, have you seen Putin's approval rating in Russia? Why isn't it just as high in the U.S.?

I haven't seen his approval rating in Russia, nor do I care to.  I'll say it again: HE IS A DICTATOR.  If he wants his ratings to be high, they will be.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Clay displays his lack of knowledge about the world again. For Putin's victories are no more fake than LBJ's or Eisenhower's.

Clay, have you seen Putin's approval rating in Russia? Why isn't it just as high in the U.S.?

I haven't seen his approval rating in Russia, nor do I care to.  I'll say it again: HE IS A DICTATOR.  If he wants his ratings to be high, they will be.

-Neither is the case outside your imagination.

[SCNCmod]

It is a fact that Putin has had dozens of opponents/ adversaries murdered over the course of his reign (not too different that North Korean tactics regarding opponents).

Just as bad... when he became President, he had no notable wealth to speak of (as he grew up poor, then was a KGB agent)... since becoming President, he has become literally the richest man in the World- worth an estimated 200 Billion (and many of his cohorts have become Billionaires as well (via Putin handouts of property, etc following the break-up of the USSR)... while the majority of Russia has suffered from their awful economy. During this time Putin has created a large cadre (which also serves as a protective barrier around him) of new Millionaires via practices that are corrupt beyond anything the US could imagine...

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

It is a fact that Putin has had dozens of opponents/ adversaries murdered over the course of his reign (not too different that North Korean tactics regarding opponents).

Just as bad... when he became President, he had no notable wealth to speak of (as he grew up poor, then was a KGB agent)... since becoming President, he has become literally the richest man in the World- worth an estimated 200 Billion (and many of his cohorts have become Billionaires as well (via Putin handouts of property, etc following the break-up of the USSR)... while the majority of Russia has suffered from their awful economy. During this time Putin has created a large cadre (which also serves as a protective barrier around him) of new Millionaires via practices that are corrupt beyond anything the US could imagine...

-Of course, neither accusation happens to be, you know, true.

[SCNCmod]

It is a fact that Putin has had dozens of opponents/ adversaries murdered over the course of his reign (not too different that North Korean tactics regarding opponents).

Just as bad... when he became President, he had no notable wealth to speak of (as he grew up poor, then was a KGB agent)... since becoming President, he has become literally the richest man in the World- worth an estimated 200 Billion (and many of his cohorts have become Billionaires as well (via Putin handouts of property, etc following the break-up of the USSR)... while the majority of Russia has suffered from their awful economy. During this time Putin has created a large cadre (which also serves as a protective barrier around him) of new Millionaires via practices that are corrupt beyond anything the US could imagine...

-Of course, neither accusation happens to be, you know, true.

Do you honestly think neither is true?  That he has political opponents killed.... and he went from no wealth to a multi-multi Billionaire over the course of his Presidency?

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

It is a fact that Putin has had dozens of opponents/ adversaries murdered over the course of his reign (not too different that North Korean tactics regarding opponents).

Just as bad... when he became President, he had no notable wealth to speak of (as he grew up poor, then was a KGB agent)... since becoming President, he has become literally the richest man in the World- worth an estimated 200 Billion (and many of his cohorts have become Billionaires as well (via Putin handouts of property, etc following the break-up of the USSR)... while the majority of Russia has suffered from their awful economy. During this time Putin has created a large cadre (which also serves as a protective barrier around him) of new Millionaires via practices that are corrupt beyond anything the US could imagine...

-Of course, neither accusation happens to be, you know, true.

Do you honestly think neither is true?  That he has political opponents killed.... and he went from no wealth to a multi-multi Billionaire over the course of his Presidency?

-Of course not. Both are squarely ridiculous.