Jon Stewart Has a Message for Trump Supporters

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

Yup, that's the uncomfortable bottom line: illegal immigrants are people who aren't even supposed to be here. The stating of that simple truth makes me a bigoted simpleton in your eyes? So be it. No, I don't think I'm particularly special, but I do try to avoid judging people that I know nothing about. You might try that sometime, it usually works pretty well for me. And I'm not implying anything, I'm stating it outright: you have no idea what you're talking about. And I stand by that 100%.

I have no idea what your ethnicity is, and I couldn't care.  But it does bring up an interesting point: Latino (especially Mexican) immigrants who "did it the right way," and "waited their turn to immigrate legally."  They are among the most rabidly anti-illegal people I know.  They also tend to be from the upper crust of Mexico, which is extremely socially stratified.  Their seething disdain for the plebes of their home country is palpable.  There is often, but not always, a skin-color component as well.

This is not to say anything about you, but the "but I'm one of them, so my attitudes are extra-legit" defense is no excuse for classist attitudes.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

Yup, that's the uncomfortable bottom line: illegal immigrants are people who aren't even supposed to be here. The stating of that simple truth makes me a bigoted simpleton in your eyes? So be it. No, I don't think I'm particularly special, but I do try to avoid judging people that I know nothing about. You might try that sometime, it usually works pretty well for me. And I'm not implying anything, I'm stating it outright: you have no idea what you're talking about. And I stand by that 100%.

I have no idea what your ethnicity is, and I couldn't care.  But it does bring up an interesting point: Latino (especially Mexican) immigrants who "did it the right way," and "waited their turn to immigrate legally."  They are among the most rabidly anti-illegal people I know.  They also tend to be from the upper crust of Mexico, which is extremely socially stratified.  Their seething disdain for the plebes of their home country is palpable.  There is often, but not always, a skin-color component as well.

This is not to say anything about you, but the "but I'm one of them, so my attitudes are extra-legit" defense is no excuse for classist attitudes.

I agree. but calling someone a "bigoted simpleton" because they dare to point out the serious problem and large number of serious crimes committed against American citizens by those here illegally? That's uncalled for, especially when the person doing the labeling knows nothing about the person being labeled. And yes, I too know a good many people of Mexican heritage who are staunchly pro legal immigration. I suppose they're bigots as well? I don't think my attitudes are extra legit, and I actually welcome legitimate arguments offered in opposition to those attitudes, I really do. But we seem to have reached a point in our 140 character soundbite existence where it's so much easier to call someone you disagree with an "idiot" or a "bigot" than to offer a thoughtful, constructive counter-argument. I'll just leave it at that.

I agree that name-calling and personal attacks are uncalled for.  I hope to steer this discussion away from that and towards constructive argument.

On the other point, it's very easy for upper-class Mexicans with economic privilege to be blind to what being jobless and hopeless is like, or what remittances really mean to someone who is trying to keep their family at home from complete destitution.  Those of us who are privileged can never fully comprehend the struggle of others.  It doesn't make them bigoted, but it does make them insensitive.

I have great respect for those who have braved a journey to a foreign country that is hostile to them in order to work hard and build a brighter future.  Yes, they are breaking the laws of our land by coming here illegally, but the onus is on us to create a just and enforceable immigration policy.  Our willful non-enforcement of our own laws is tantamount to invitation, and it's not their fault.

I don't have time to get into the statistics on immigration and crime, but using the bad behavior of some to categorize the entire group is unfair.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

I'm inclined to agree with everything you said. However, you don't actually give any suggestions about what we should do to address the problem I brought up. My wife's grandfather was one of those who crossed into the U.S. looking to build a brighter future for his family; he worked extremely hard, and the family is an American success story. So I understand what it is you're talking about. But while I feel for those who come here looking for a better life, I also feel for the families who have to live with the murders of children or siblings or parents, lives that were cut short because we haven't bothered to enforce our own immigration laws.

That is a good point.  A regime that encourages mass lawlessness, and a completely chaotic open border, is an invitation to criminals and terrorists.

Building a wall and deporting millions of immigrants is not the solution, and while your rhetoric does not encourage racism, bigotry, hatred, and violence, Donald Trump's does.  If you really want to know what I would like to do about our immigration policy, it would be something like this: open the border and have free movement of people bearing Mexican and American passports.  Mexicans who have the appropriate government documents may come here and get an instant work visa allowing them to live, work, and pay taxes in the Unites States as legal resident aliens.  With documentation.  Without the constant fear of deportation and the exploitation that comes with it.  And those who have lived and worked here for a certain amount of time may apply for full citizenship if that is what they desire.

Now I know that due to American attitudes towards brown-skinned immigrants, this will never, ever happen.  But this is our de facto policy with respect to Mexico anyway.  Except that instead of channeling immigrants through a controlled border in which credentials can be checked and criminals turned away and/or turned over to Mexican authorities, we have immigrants sneaking across, breaking the law, and giving a path to anyone and everyone who wants to get in, for any reason.

There is clearly a demand for immigrant labor, which is why immigrants come here, and why there has been no political will to change the current regime, at least not until now.

Now, my political philosophy as an internationalist Liberal is that we should allow the free movement of people and goods between nations.  That ultimately we will be a better world for it, and people will enjoy greater freedom, prosperity, and democracy.  But this election cycle has proved that there is no room for me on the left or the right.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

That is a good point.  A regime that encourages mass lawlessness, and a completely chaotic open border, is an invitation to criminals and terrorists.

Building a wall and deporting millions of immigrants is not the solution, and while your rhetoric does not encourage racism, bigotry, hatred, and violence, Donald Trump's does.  If you really want to know what I would like to do about our immigration policy, it would be something like this: open the border and have free movement of people bearing Mexican and American passports.  Mexicans who have the appropriate government documents may come here and get an instant work visa allowing them to live, work, and pay taxes in the Unites States as legal resident aliens.  With documentation.  Without the constant fear of deportation and the exploitation that comes with it.  And those who have lived and worked here for a certain amount of time may apply for full citizenship if that is what they desire.

Now I know that due to American attitudes towards brown-skinned immigrants, this will never, ever happen.  But this is our de facto policy with respect to Mexico anyway.  Except that instead of channeling immigrants through a controlled border in which credentials can be checked and criminals turned away and/or turned over to Mexican authorities, we have immigrants sneaking across, breaking the law, and giving a path to anyone and everyone who wants to get in, for any reason.

There is clearly a demand for immigrant labor, which is why immigrants come here, and why there has been no political will to change the current regime, at least not until now.

Now, my political philosophy as an internationalist Liberal is that we should allow the free movement of people and goods between nations.  That ultimately we will be a better world for it, and people will enjoy greater freedom, prosperity, and democracy.  But this election cycle has proved that there is no room for me on the left or the right.

So you're saying you'd like to open things up like they've done in Europe?

Yes.  Full stop.

How has that been working for countries like Germany or France? And wasn't that one of the chief motivating factors of the Brexit vote? I'd think twice before advocating introducing the same problems here in the U.S.

The Brexit was a disgusting expression of misguided nationalism and xenophobia.  The benefits of the European experiment far outweigh the problems, and the EU has bettered the lives of hundreds of millions of people.  People should be free.  There absolutely are problems with terrorism, and the radicalization of Muslims within the EU.  The solution is not nations walling themselves off, the solution is combating the forces that are radicalizing people.

Let's just see how Northern Ireland fares once the border to the Irish Republic closes.