Hugo Chavez has died

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Thatcher and Chavez really aren't comparable at all, sorry guy.

Your a horrible person, you know that right?

That may be, but my point still stands. Chavez nationalized oil companies and took a lit bit of the wealth from the richest strata of Venezuelan society to redistribute to those in extreme poverty. Thatcher destroyed and economically devastated entire communities across northern England in an ideological crusade.

LOL. I've never heard of people killed by Chavez regime. It seems that the propaganda machine works well.

He is not sending in tanks to Tiananmen Square, but the man was no hero. He funded FARC, the terrorist group that has lead to thousands of deaths in its war against Columbia.

You know that the FARC was active, alive and kicking in Colombia decades prior to Chavez. Do you want to make the man who has died guilty of all the dead in the neighbouring country? Do you know something about narcos, paracas and other lovely Colombian gentlemen? Come on, it's not the moment for the "Chavez is Evil" time. Watch Fox News if you want that kind of primary and biased stuff. By the way, I'll never claim that the man was a hero, but certainly he was democratically elected, like it or not. And, as some people is trying to tell you, not all his record is so bad.

FARC has been around since the 1950s. That is common knowledge. Quit talking down to me; I am not another Palin-Beck rightwinger.

If you're not, you really should quit acting like one (and show basic human dignity).

Human dignity is for those who deserve it; human dignity is reserved for respectable leaders, like Lula in Brazil.

Lula is a big fan of Chavez and would certainly disagree with you that he is not deserving of respect.

Thatcher may or may have not been the best leader, but she did not abuse human rights and disregard civil liberties. You are missing my point. Lula was a leftist, and a fan of Chavez. But Lula was not a thug.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Rest in peace. Whatever you may think of him, he was one of the most significant statesmen of our times.

It's pretty pathetic to see how even this thread ends up being turned into the usual sh*tfest between the equally ridiculous lovers and haters.

[WMS]

My, the replies do come in. Those who know of me will damn well know how I feel about him.

But first:

If you can't say anything nice in the minutes after someone's death, stfu. Seriously trashy. I'm not a Chavez fanboy by any strecth, but have some basic respect for human dignity.

Did you and yours do so when Jerry Falwell died, Hugh? Just wondering...

I would like to add, that to those here calling Chavez's opponents "trashy", there was a thread called "Were gonna have a party when Thatcher dies." I know for a fact that half of you would celebrate the death of Dick Cheney, who was just as evil during his time in office, if not more evil, than Chavez ever was. So please, get a little bit of consistency in your hypocritical minds.

Quoted for truth. But don't interfere with the usual liberal circle-jerk that goes on on this forum

LOL. I've never heard of people killed by Chavez regime. It seems that the propaganda machine works well.

My, lefties take a seriously revisionist approach to the history of April 11, 2002, don't you?

Here's a hint: the Chavistas fired first.

Want my source for it, Hashemite? Perhaps you can come down off your pedestal and consider a point of view which isn't blindly pro-Chavez...

The Silence and the Scorpion: The Coup Against Chavez and the Making of Modern Venezuela, by Brian A. Nelson. I've actually met the guy - he is not even remotely one of those 'American right-wingers' you liberals trot out when you're defending leftie tyrants. He actually was pro-Chavez when he began his research on the 2002 coup, but when he discovered the facts, well, not so much.

I don't expect to convince a single person, but I so despise the adulation of Chavez by the left that the hell with it, while I don't revel in a creature's death, I won't shed tears for the fall of a tyrant, either. You lot are so anti-American that you'll forgive anything for someone who OPPOSES THE EVIL AMERICANS!!!

[njwes]

Leif is your opinion of Reagan similar to your opinion of Thatcher? I'm just curious; it seems to me that many on the lest tend to group them as twins.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

My, the replies do come in. Those who know of me will damn well know how I feel about him.

But first:

If you can't say anything nice in the minutes after someone's death, stfu. Seriously trashy. I'm not a Chavez fanboy by any strecth, but have some basic respect for human dignity.

Did you and yours do so when Jerry Falwell died, Hugh? Just wondering...

I would like to add, that to those here calling Chavez's opponents "trashy", there was a thread called "Were gonna have a party when Thatcher dies." I know for a fact that half of you would celebrate the death of Dick Cheney, who was just as evil during his time in office, if not more evil, than Chavez ever was. So please, get a little bit of consistency in your hypocritical minds.

Quoted for truth. But don't interfere with the usual liberal circle-jerk that goes on on this forum

LOL. I've never heard of people killed by Chavez regime. It seems that the propaganda machine works well.

My, lefties take a seriously revisionist approach to the history of April 11, 2002, don't you?

Here's a hint: the Chavistas fired first.

Want my source for it, Hashemite? Perhaps you can come down off your pedestal and consider a point of view which isn't blindly pro-Chavez...

The Silence and the Scorpion: The Coup Against Chavez and the Making of Modern Venezuela, by Brian A. Nelson. I've actually met the guy - he is not even remotely one of those 'American right-wingers' you liberals trot out when you're defending leftie tyrants. He actually was pro-Chavez when he began his research on the 2002 coup, but when he discovered the facts, well, not so much.

I don't expect to convince a single person, but I so despise the adulation of Chavez by the left that the hell with it, while I don't revel in a creature's death, I won't shed tears for the fall of a tyrant, either. You lot are so anti-American that you'll forgive anything for someone who OPPOSES THE EVIL AMERICANS!!!

It is only fair to say that the 2002 coup was just as ammoral on the part of the USA as anything Chavez did in his nation.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Good.  The man's been dying for months now.  His lingering was doing no one any good.  Not himself, not his family, not his allies, nor his enemies.

[Lief 🗽]

Leif is your opinion of Reagan similar to your opinion of Thatcher? I'm just curious; it seems to me that many on the lest tend to group them as twins.

No, I'm hardly a fan of Reagan, and I think he was a bad president, but his policies were nowhere near as vindictively cruel or destructive as Thatcher's were. There's a reason why wide swathes of Britain actively loathe Thatcher, to a degree that's really not comparable at all to the left's dislike of Reagan in the United States.

[Velasco]

LOL. I've never heard of people killed by Chavez regime. It seems that the propaganda machine works well.

My, lefties take a seriously revisionist approach to the history of April 11, 2002, don't you?

LOL again. This night will be a very comedic one in several political forums. I didn't mention the events on April 2002. Do you approve the coup the état that followed? I suspect that the answer is affirmative. I love being a revisionist leftie

[© tweed]

Good.  The man's been dying for months now.  His lingering was doing no one any good.  Not himself, not his family, not his allies, nor his enemies.

his having 'lingered' through October was a gift from the Gods.

[WMS]

It is only fair to say that the 2002 coup was just as ammoral on the part of the USA as anything Chavez did in his nation.

I was not a fan of it - it was one of the dumber things the CIA came up with - but it was also a lot more complicated that just that: the coup initially had broad support before Carmona and the right-wing went berserk and tried to seize power within the coup. Take a look at that book - it doesn't exonerate Bush et al.

Oh, and Chavez tried to stage a coup against a democratically elected government, too. Funny how that gets forgotten

[Lief 🗽]

You lot are so anti-American that you'll forgive anything for someone who OPPOSES THE EVIL AMERICANS!!!

Yes, I remember all the forum lefties who mourned Kim Jong Il after he died.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

You lot are so anti-American that you'll forgive anything for someone who OPPOSES THE EVIL AMERICANS!!!

Yes, I remember all the forum lefties who mourned Kim Jong Il after he died.

Agreed, and Kim Jong Ill deserved ten fold the hate that Chavez received. That makes Chavez no better a person however.

[Lief 🗽]

Chavez was no better a leader than Kim Jong-il? wtf

[WMS]

LOL again. This night will be a very comedic one in several political forums. I didn't mention the events on April 2002. Do you approve the coup the état that followed? I suspect that the answer is affirmative. I love being a revisionist leftie

Yes, you know, where the Chavistas fired on demonstrators *first*, killing 19 people and wounding around 150. That's what triggered everything that followed. But you'll just deny it ever happened, won't you?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Chavez was no better a leader than Kim Jong-il? wtf

No better of a person, I should add. I apologize for not finishing my post. No, Kim was much, much more evil.

[Velasco]

Oh, and Chavez tried to stage a coup against a democratically elected government, too. Funny how that gets forgotten

Nobody has forgotten that Chavez tried to seize the power in the 90's, at least not me. He spent a little time in jail for that and later he regretted in public. The man finally took the power via democratic elections. Don't forget the events of that time, especially the Caracazo and the social unrest.

[WMS]

You lot are so anti-American that you'll forgive anything for someone who OPPOSES THE EVIL AMERICANS!!!

Yes, I remember all the forum lefties who mourned Kim Jong Il after he died.

Cherry-picking a point, Lief? You're so nuts you actually support Bashar al-Assad. Kim Jong Il was such an extreme example that that doesn't say anything - in the case of Chavez, his anti-Americanism is exactly why you liked him!

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Maybe freedom and republician democracy will win the day and the US and Venezuela will have better relations now.

The guy didn't come to power peacefully and wasn't a friend of human liberty so in that sense its good that he's gone as a leader. But as a human being I will reserve that judgement to God.

[Miles]

Rest in peace to a man who ultimately did more good than bad to his country.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

You lot are so anti-American that you'll forgive anything for someone who OPPOSES THE EVIL AMERICANS!!!

Yes, I remember all the forum lefties who mourned Kim Jong Il after he died.

Cherry-picking a point, Lief? You're so nuts you actually support Bashar al-Assad. Kim Jong Il was such an extreme example that that doesn't say anything - in the case of Chavez, his anti-Americanism is exactly why you liked him!

Ugh, I agree with you for the most part, but I have never seen Lief defend al-Assad nor say anything anti-American.

[Dereich]

Rest in peace. Whatever you may think of him, he was one of the most significant statesmen of our times.

It's pretty pathetic to see how even this thread ends up being turned into the usual sh*tfest between the equally ridiculous lovers and haters.

THIS. Few world leaders could be said to lead continent wide movements like Chavez did. South America seems to have a disproportionate number of leaders who hacks love or hate.

[WMS]

Nobody has forgotten that Chavez tried to seize the power in the 90's, at least not me. He spent a little time in jail for that and later he regretted in public. The man finally took the power via democratic elections. Don't forget the events of that time, especially the Caracazo and the social unrest.

You say not to forget the events of the time in relation to 1992, but that is what I am saying about 2002 - the coup attempt didn't happen in a vacuum, despite apologists' best attempts.

Here, since you haven't clicked on any of my links the first time, try this one since it's quick.

For that matter, you have checked out what the human rights groups have had to say about Chavez's Venezuela in general, haven't you?

[Lief 🗽]

I support Bashar al-Assad? Wow, that's news to me. I like Chavez because he was anti-American? That's also news to me! Kindly fuck off if you're going to resort to making up what I think or believe in.

Chavez's foreign policy has nothing to do with my opinion of him (and in fact I think his buddying up to the Iranian regime, for example, was gross). I like him because he was a decent man who tried to make his country a better place and fought against entrenched interests that had perpetuated inequality and stood against democracy in Venezuela for decades before Chavez was elected.

[Velasco]

See, WMS, all that events are debatable and I'd love to discuss them another time in another place. It's only that it's not appropriate now turning into a debate between pro-Chavez and anti-Chavez hacks. It's really hilarious because I'm not a Chavez fan and I have some criticism towards his figure, but some people hates him in a way so ridiculous and disproportionate, product of some media hyperboles -- the man wasn't a dictator, try to keep this in your minds-- that I typed some replies on this topic.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Well, regardless of what you thought of the man... he suffered through a pretty awful ordeal where the payoff was bittersweet death.

I don't know enough about the man or his policies... but I think spreading the benefits of your nation's natural wealth among the populace is a good thing.  As long as the middle class and rich also get their admittedly much smaller piece of the pie as well.