Did George Zimmerman vote for Obama?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

He's a registered Democrat, but he also obviously hates blacks.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

He's a registered Democrat, but he also obviously hates blacks.

I don't know if he hates blacks.  He didn't say, **There is a black guy behaving suspiciously.**  He said, **There's a guy behaving suspiciously.** when asked by the 911 investigator, he said, **He's black.**

Walking around a neighborhood is not "behaving suspiciously" nor is it a reason to gun someone down. He did that because he was black.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

If I supported the death penalty (which I'd don't), I'd support it for Zimmerman.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What ag said basically. If I called 911 on every "suspicious" person in my neighborhood, using J. J.'s definition, I'd be calling 911 more than any other number and basically every day. I think Minneapolis 911 would also prefer to only get calls from real emergencies and am happy I'm not clogging up their phone lines every single time I see someone behind a building who is a stranger I don't recognize. I'd be calling 911 every single day if I did so.

And mind you even if something is a legitimate reason to call 911 it is not a legitimate reason to go after that person directly in complete violation of the 911 operator's instructions.

He's a registered Democrat, but he also obviously hates blacks.

What's the evidence that he "obviously hates blacks"?  This might be the most ignorant post I've seen on this forum in a long time.

Let's see he gunned down an unarmed black while muttering "f**king c**ns"?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

If I supported the death penalty (which I'd don't), I'd support it for Zimmerman.

Nice way of campaigning for Zimmerman to get the death penalty while maintaining the pretext of opposing it. If you really oppose the death penalty, don't make these sorts of comments. You would be campaigning for Zimmerman not to get the death penalty. You would be saying he deserves to live. And this doesn't just go for Zimmerman, it goes for every time we have a high profile killer.

In Cleveland we recently had the trial of Anthony Sowell, who raped, tortured, and murdered at least 13 women and buried their bodies in his basement and back yard. He was unsurprisingly given the death penalty since his crimes were so heinous. Yet, a lot of people who normally oppose the death penalty weren't exactly rushing to stop Sowell from getting it. But cases like his show true meaning of opposing capital punishment, opposing it for someone who has done something truly horrible or who society really hates. That's the entire point.

If I supported the death penalty (which I'd don't), I'd support it for Zimmerman.

I didn't think BRTD was a HP. Is this the person you would really make the exception for(hint: there are people that have comitted much worse crimes than Zimmerman). I don't think manslaughter gets you over 20 years in any state, even if it's racially motivated. Because Zimmerman has pre-meditated his murder, right? I think it's more of a case shoot first, ask questions later.

I never said he should be the exception. What I think is hypocritical that TJ touched on and I'm sure would agree is like in Connecticut where they delayed repealing the death penalty so they could sentence it to that home invasion guy, and then repeal it afterwards without it being retroactive. Indeed that is inane though better than not repealing it at all. But if Zimmerman was on death row and I was a Florida legislator (obviously this is an impossible scenario) and there was a vote on repealing the death penalty like Illinois (also emptying out the death row), I would vote for repeal.

But if I did support the death penalty, I probably would for him. Obviously I would for the worse killers too. But as I don't and would vote against any type of instating the death penalty in my state, it's all moot.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What ag said basically. If I called 911 on every "suspicious" person in my neighborhood, using J. J.'s definition, I'd be calling 911 more than any other number and basically every day. I think Minneapolis 911 would also prefer to only get calls from real emergencies and am happy I'm not clogging up their phone lines every single time I see someone behind a building who is a stranger I don't recognize. I'd be calling 911 every single day if I did so.

And mind you even if something is a legitimate reason to call 911 it is not a legitimate reason to go after that person directly in complete violation of the 911 operator's instructions.

Let me understand this.  You don't think that a stranger, at night, walking in a residential area, presumably in an area behind buildings, not where foot traffic normally is, shouldn't be reported to the police by someone on town watch?

WOW! 

You seriously think I should report to the police every single person I see in the back alleys in my neighborhood?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm going to work now, my car is parked about a block behind my apartment. I should check out the alleyways walking back there and seeing if there's anyone I don't recognize. OMG maybe I should call 911 if that's the case!

BRTD: 911?
911 operator: Yes
BRTD: You need to send police out here, there's a lot of people in my neighborhood I don't recognize! And OMG they're in BACKALLEYS!

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You know, I guarantee that if I declared myself the "Whittier Neighborhood Watch Captain" or some nonsense like that and started driving around my neighborhood looking for "suspicious" people like Zimmerman was, I'd be FAR more likely to get stopped by the police than for simply walking in backalleys, which I do all the time.

And with good reason, because someone driving around the neighborhood aimlessly is far more likely to have negative intentions than someone simply walking through it. I also imagine the Minneapolis PD wouldn't appreciate me calling them every single time I notice someone I don't recognize walking behind a building.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You know, I guarantee that if I declared myself the "Whittier Neighborhood Watch Captain" or some nonsense like that and started driving around my neighborhood looking for "suspicious" people like Zimmerman was, I'd be FAR more likely to get stopped by the police than for simply walking in backalleys, which I do all the time.

And with good reason, because someone driving around the neighborhood aimlessly is far more likely to have negative intentions than someone simply walking through it. I also imagine the Minneapolis PD wouldn't appreciate me calling them every single time I notice someone I don't recognize walking behind a building.

But what if you had attended a Neighborhood Watch meeting at which you volunteered to be the "captain", which is not a title of your choosing but something that Neighborhood Watch uses (they apparently have neighborhood captains and block captains).   And the police officer told you to report anything out of the ordinary, and the next day you report a garage door open (giving the name of the officer).   And the Minneapolis police dispatched two officers to the scene and verified that the home owner was there.

If I called you a "self-appointed watch captain" it would be a lie.

Do you think that Zimmerman stole the Neighborhood Watch signs from a high-crime neighborhood and then trampled the flower beds to plant them outside the walls of his cloistered community?

I doubt the Minneapolis PD would ever do that, since they would rather deal with other things than some wannabe vigilante jackass reporting anything "suspicious". Believe me, "anything out of the ordinary" here would be there NOT being any unrecognized people walking in areas like backalleys.

I mean I do see signs in some places saying neighborhood watch and that they'll report crimes, but it means just that, they'll report any crimes being witnessed, not drive around aimlessly looking for "suspicious" people. And then of course if such a person is found getting outside and confronting them with a gun which the 911 dispatcher says explicitly not to do (and is also just common sense).

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And if you read that you will see it's not about having random people drive around looking for "suspicious" individuals. After all it's talking about blocks and apartments, not large areas, and apartments clubs obviously wouldn't involve driving at all. But once again J. J. is saying I should call the police every single time I see someone behind the apartments here I don't recognize. If I stood on a balcony looking out back I'd be calling the police multiple times an hour if that was the case. BTW to add to my driving to work anecdote above, I actually DID see someone behind my apartment I had never seen before while walking to my car. It's such an common occurance I don't even think about it when it happens!

Lake Street runs across the notoriously crime-ridden Phillips neighborhood, is known for shady businesses everywhere from Uptown till the Target, and just about all the areas south of it are very white and middle class.

And adding to that, if I called 911 every time I was driving on Lake Street and saw someone who looked like Trayvon Martin in a hoodie, that would mean I'd be making multiple 911 calls every time I went to Target. Mind you someone looking like Trayvon Martin in a hoodie would be near the bottom of the list of threatening looking individuals I see in Phillips. Number of times I have called 911 in that area: 0

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And if you read that you will see it's not about having random people drive around looking for "suspicious" individuals. After all it's talking about blocks and apartments, not large areas, and apartments clubs obviously wouldn't involve driving at all.

The neighborhood is not all that large.  It has around 45 6-unit builds, 250 in total.  The street that loops the entire neighborhood is 0.6 miles long.  Google says it can be walked in 11 minutes.

How do you know that they don't have block captains?

They might. The point is, the idea is not to go drive around looking for "suspicious" people, especially since we appear to be defining "suspicious" as "not recognized by people in the neighborhood", which brings xenophobia to a whole new level.

Lake Street runs across the notoriously crime-ridden Phillips neighborhood, is known for shady businesses everywhere from Uptown till the Target, and just about all the areas south of it are very white and middle class.

It appears that the crime prevention teams only work south of Lake Street.  There are probably plans to set up a security barrier when the riots start.

And adding to that, if I called 911 every time I was driving on Lake Street and saw someone who looked like Trayvon Martin in a hoodie, that would mean I'd be making multiple 911 calls every time I went to Target. Mind you someone looking like Trayvon Martin in a hoodie would be near the bottom of the list of threatening looking individuals I see in Phillips. Number of times I have called 911 in that area: 0

How far do you live from Lake Street?

Not far. My approximate location is on my profile.

If you heard a smoke detector going off, would you call 911?  If you saw someone lying along the side of the street would you call 911?   If you saw a tree branch that was extending out into the street, in a position where it wasn't particularly visible and there were already a couple of outside mirrors knocked off, would you report it?  If you heard breaking glass, late at night would you call 911?  If you heard an auto accident, but didn't see it, would you go check it out.

I've done one of those actually (guy passed alongside a bus stop around 2AM one night.) The others, no.

Most neighborhoods in Houston don't have alleys.  In an area that does, there were a couple dozen fires in a few months within a few blocks, generally in the wee hours along the alleys.  If you lived in the area, would you report anyone you saw along the alley at night?

Probably not, no. I myself am frequently in back alleys at night if I ever park behind my apartment.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The neighborhood is not all that large.  It has around 45 6-unit builds, 250 in total.  The street that loops the entire neighborhood is 0.6 miles long.  Google says it can be walked in 11 minutes.

How do you know that they don't have block captains?

They might. The point is, the idea is not to go drive around looking for "suspicious" people, especially since we appear to be defining "suspicious" as "not recognized by people in the neighborhood", which brings xenophobia to a whole new level.

Zimmerman was on his way to the store.   Who is "we" who "appear" to be defining 'suspicious'?

Well pretty much just J. J. I suppose, but he's the one arguing that noticing a person in a neighborhood you don't recognize warrants a 911 call. I don't think the point of most neighborhood watch organizations is to call 911 for every single un-recognized person in the neighborhood (though I tend not to be fond of them in general, you don't need some nonsense group to call 911 if you see an actual crime committed, so they mostly just empower wannabe vigilantes like Zimmerman.)

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Probably not, no. I myself am frequently in back alleys at night if I ever park behind my apartment.

Even if the police organized a neighborhood meeting.   Wouldn't you be concerned that someone could be killed in a fire?[/quote]

I'm not one to attend neighborhood meetings, and I doubt any that happen here attract anywhere near 15000 people (our whole population). But you're raising a hypothetical with completely different circumstances than I've ever been in. The point is I have never once called 911 because of someone in a back alley here, and if I was a majority of the calls I'd make would be to 911 and I don't think the Minneapolis PD want to be investigating every random person in a hoodie in an apartment back alley. Of course even that's not the question, but whether it's OK to engage such a person after being explicitly told not too by a 911 operator and then shoot them.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Lots of old people drive to mall to go walking, but that's more about the climate control than anything else. I don't think anybody would want to go for a walk here in July or in Minnesota in January.

Believe it or not, people do. People here even BIKE in January, though that's probably just a Minneapolis thing and I doubt is too common in the suburbs.