Bush threatens to lay off 150,000 workers right before Christmas

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Bush has threatened to lay off 150,000 workers right before Christmas if he doesn't get exactly the Iraq war bill that he wants. Why is this lunatic still President?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/20/14436/003

[Flying Dog]

The Democrats are most likely going to cave again.

[Silent Hunter]

I've taken you off my ignore list, jfern, you'll be interested to know.

1. Provide me with a proper link, please. As others have mentioned, they don't want to visit DailyKos and neither do I, for that matter.
2. Am I right in thinking this is just a government shutdown, which has been done by both parties many times in the past?

[Ban my account ffs!]

Unfortunately, the Democrats have everything to gain from a government shutdown.  Bush will look like the stubborn idiot.

I say unfortunately, because shutting down the government for political reasons is always a very bad thing.

[Joe Republic]

Unfortunately, the Democrats have everything to gain from a government shutdown.  Bush will look like the stubborn idiot.

I say unfortunately, because shutting down the government for political reasons is always a very bad thing.

Exactly the opposite occurred during the shutdowns in Nov and Dec 1995.  Bill Clinton emerged the winner in most people's eyes, with the House Republicans looking like the "stubborn idiots", as you put it.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Look at public opinion.  Despite congress being less popular than the president (something many Republicans like to tout without really looking at why), much of teh frustration comes from congress not holding the president accountable, and they've been caving in to Bush's demands and now he has the upper hand.

The Republican brand of "fiscal responsibility" has never been very popular.  People swoon when they hear "tax cuts" but when you start vetoing childrens' health care and other social programs while demanding huge sums of money for a very unpopular war, Americans certainly will not warm up to your stand on being "fiscally responsible".

Again, the Democrats have everything to gain from this.  They need to grow some balls and stand up to the president, buck the trend of PC criticism and call him on his own bluff.

If I were Pelosi, I'd say

"Mr. President, we will shut this government down until you come to the table with some real intentions to compromise.  The sooner the better, because the longer you wait, the longer the government will be shut down and services will be cut off to Americans who need it.  And in the end, those employees will be paid for their time off, so the only people you are hurting are the American people with your political mind games."

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I've taken you off my ignore list, jfern, you'll be interested to know.

1. Provide me with a proper link, please. As others have mentioned, they don't want to visit DailyKos and neither do I, for that matter.
2. Am I right in thinking this is just a government shutdown, which has been done by both parties many times in the past?

What's wrong with DailyKos? OK, here's a different link.

http://www.reuters.com/article/middleeastCrisis/idUSN20600772

Murtha is calling bullsh**t (or is that bush**t?), and he's not the sort of person who would want the military to run out of money.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

If I were Pelosi, I'd say

"Mr. President, we will shut this government down until you come to the table with some real intentions to compromise.  The sooner the better, because the longer you wait, the longer the government will be shut down and services will be cut off to Americans who need it.  And in the end, those employees will be paid for their time off, so the only people you are hurting are the American people with your political mind games."

And if I were Bush, I'd reply:

"Maddam Speaker, I will not abadon our troops that in the field.  Instead, I'm going to give every opportunity for victory to the men and women in our armed forces who are bravely serving in Iraq, who bravely risk their lives every day.  If the Democrats in Congress will not provide for the vital needs of our own American soldiers while they are under fire from terrorists, then I have no choice but to order the military to allocate all available funds to support our troops in the field."

[Joe Republic]

And if I were Bush, I'd reply:

"Maddam Speaker, I will not abadon our troops ...

The typos would be left in, of course.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

All Bush is doing is saying, "Congress, you've given the DoD however many billions for FY 2007-08 and me the authority to decide how to shift money around within the DoD.  Since you refuse to appropriate extra for Iraq without strings, I'm not going to assume you will do it someday and spend part of next's summer's money this winter to keep the effort in Iraq going.  Instead, I'm cutting spending now to stay within the budget that you, the Congress, have given me."

It's hardball politics and it basically puts the ball back in Congress' court.

[Lief 🗽]

If parts of the government are shut down, I have a hard time seeing a scenario where it would be bad politically for the Democrats. Congress' approval ratings are technically below the President's, but when people are asked who is to blame for the lack of anything being done by Congress, they overwhelmingly blame Bush and the obstructionist Republicans. Bush shutting down government would just be another example of him obstructing the Democrats from enacting policies that Americans support.

[Joe Republic]

If parts of the government are shut down, I have a hard time seeing a scenario where it would be bad politically for the Democrats. Congress' approval ratings are technically below the President's, but when people are asked who is to blame for the lack of anything being done by Congress, they overwhelmingly blame Bush and the obstructionist Republicans. Bush shutting down government would just be another example of him obstructing the Democrats from enacting policies that Americans support.

Evidence?

[MODU]

The Democrats will "cave" (as it has been put) since in the end, they do not want to give the Republicans ammunition against them in the 2008 races.  As more and more reports are coming out showing that the quality and security of life is improving in Iraq, it would be a crushing blow to the Democrats near-term future to force a withdraw of US support (both financially and militarily) in Iraq which might end with a deterioration of the conditions on the ground. 

No, the Democrats will remove the requirement (which isn't binding) for US troops to begin withdrawing before February.  In return, they will offer only the $50Bill in their current bill, and the Republicans will accept.

BTW - Murtha doesn't understand Military funding, thinking that the Pentagon can easily rearrange their current funding to meet wartime goals.  Anyone familiar with the business understands the different "colors" of gov't money, and one type cannot simply be used for a different function.  You would think he'd know better.

[Lief 🗽]

If parts of the government are shut down, I have a hard time seeing a scenario where it would be bad politically for the Democrats. Congress' approval ratings are technically below the President's, but when people are asked who is to blame for the lack of anything being done by Congress, they overwhelmingly blame Bush and the obstructionist Republicans. Bush shutting down government would just be another example of him obstructing the Democrats from enacting policies that Americans support.

Evidence?

If people blamed Democrats for the failures of this Congress more than they did Bush and the Republicans, the Democratic party wouldn't enjoy a net positive rating of 17% compared to the Republican's net negative rating of 10%. link

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

You can't run an army w/o funding - I see nothing wrong w/ what Bush does here.  Of course, DailyKos is about as reliable as Rolling Stone Magazine, so try to find good sources in the future.

[Dr. Cynic]

You can't run an army w/o funding - I see nothing wrong w/ what Bush does here.  Of course, DailyKos is about as reliable as Rolling Stone Magazine, so try to find good sources in the future.

Didn't he just give Reuters?... I didn't visit the link though, but you'd think they'd essentially say the same except DailyKos being more bias?

[StateBoiler]

If I were Pelosi, I'd say

"Mr. President, we will shut this government down until you come to the table with some real intentions to compromise.  The sooner the better, because the longer you wait, the longer the government will be shut down and services will be cut off to Americans who need it.  And in the end, those employees will be paid for their time off, so the only people you are hurting are the American people with your political mind games."

And if I were Bush, I'd reply:

"Maddam Speaker, I will not abadon our troops that in the field.  Instead, I'm going to give every opportunity for victory to the men and women in our armed forces who are bravely serving in Iraq, who bravely risk their lives every day.  If the Democrats in Congress will not provide for the vital needs of our own American soldiers while they are under fire from terrorists, then I have no choice but to order the military to allocate all available funds to support our troops in the field."

And I would say to Speaker Pelosi and President Bush:

"Madame Speaker, President Bush. I am sick and tired of your bulls***! So is everyone else! It is because of f***ers like the two of you that this country is going to s***! Each of you deserve to be tried for treason for helping bring about the future fall of our government! So you either solve everything and shut up in the next 24 hours, or otherwise me and 311 million other people are going to rampage into the White House and rampage into the Capitol Building and stick the muzzle of a 22-gauge loaded shotgun up each of your asses! The two of you make a coup attempt look like a good idea! Do you understand what each of you are doing?"

I follow politics. But why does everyone on this board put up with this s***? Why are you willingly being treated like neanderthal jackasses by the leaders you elected? Partisan dips***s are the worst cause these are the koolaid drinkers that would've been right at home with Jim Jones in Guyana or a communist authoritarian society, blindly following their leader with no regard to logic or common sense. Republicans, do you honestly think Bush gives a s*** about the soldiers? He's a rich Connecticut patrician that drunk half his life and got to where he was based on his last name and thinks connecting to commoners is talking with a Texas accent for f***'s sake. Democrats, do you honestly think Pelosi cares about the troops coming home? She's a rich San Francisco snob liberal that got to where she was based on her last name and talks about how we have to care for the homeless, yet would call the cops if one came up to her limousine as she rides by in her home city. No to both questions. They are using them as political ploys so they can get elected for the sole reason of giving their campaign donors money. It is all bulls***. And the sooner America wakes up from their stupidity and realizes that, the better our chances of actually saving this country from the hellhole these two dumbass parties have created in all their corruption and graft.

[bullmoose88]

Unfortunately, the Democrats have everything to gain from a government shutdown.  Bush will look like the stubborn idiot.

I say unfortunately, because shutting down the government for political reasons is always a very bad thing.

Exactly the opposite occurred during the shutdowns in Nov and Dec 1995.  Bill Clinton emerged the winner in most people's eyes, with the House Republicans looking like the "stubborn idiots", as you put it.

Rightly or wrongly, (Joe's right here) Bush/GOP could spin this as one man, Bush, is trying to stop 535 nasty partisan congressmen (even though the number against him are far fewer) from depriving the troops.

It may play well to the average american, who doesn't know any better.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

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[Dr. Cynic]

It may play well to the average american, who doesn't know any better.

That's sad....

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

If parts of the government are shut down, I have a hard time seeing a scenario where it would be bad politically for the Democrats. Congress' approval ratings are technically below the President's, but when people are asked who is to blame for the lack of anything being done by Congress, they overwhelmingly blame Bush and the obstructionist Republicans. Bush shutting down government would just be another example of him obstructing the Democrats from enacting policies that Americans support.

Evidence?

If people blamed Democrats for the failures of this Congress more than they did Bush and the Republicans, the Democratic party wouldn't enjoy a net positive rating of 17% compared to the Republican's net negative rating of 10%. link

Quinnipiac, October 31.  The nation's love affair with the Democratic run Congress continues!

Pelosi Approval Ratings (trend)
Favorable 22% (-7)
Unfavorable 35%  (+6)

Reid Approval Ratings (trend)
Favorable 9% (nc)
Unfavorable 22% (+4)

[Lief 🗽]

I'm about as partisan a Democrat as they come. If Gallup asked me what I thought of Congress, I'd say I strongly disapprove. Why? Because it's full of obstructionist, far-right Republicans and spineless capitulating Democrats. I don't think a straight do you approve/disapprove of Congress question really means much.

Independents and Democrats elected the Democratic Congress to lead, to be a real opposition to this crazy President. The country doesn't disapprove of Pelosi or Reid because they're wacko lefties who hate the troops. They disapprove because they're weak and spineless.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

3% of Americans approve of Congress' handling of the Iraq war. I think it's pretty obvious that if the Democrats actually stood up to Bush for once, that would go up. 94% of Democrats currently disapprove of Congress there. That really says something. Of course when 45 Senators fillibuster another blank check for the Iraq war just because it contained some non-binding language that the Iraq war was a mistake, we have a problem.

[opebo]

Quinnipiac, October 31.  The nation's love affair with the Democratic run Congress continues!

Pelosi Approval Ratings (trend)
Favorable 22% (-7)
Unfavorable 35%  (+6)

Reid Approval Ratings (trend)
Favorable 9% (nc)
Unfavorable 22% (+4)

Hah, I doubt that more than a tenth of Americans have any idea who are Pelosi and Reid.   Heck, most of them are only vaguely aware that there is a 'congress' in operation, which in fairness is not so foolish given its relative unimportance compared to the far more powerful modern Presidency.