Ukraine Crisis

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Resolution is ambiguous: mentions "Ukrainian territory (in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea) ... I submit a proposal on using the armed forces of the Russian Federation on the territory of Ukraine until the normalisation of the socio-political situation in the that country."

CBG in the Black Sea? Or a couple of SSNs?

Can't.  The Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits limits what we can send into the Black Sea and what little we could send can only stay there 21 days.  Neither surface vessels larger than 15,000 tons nor submarines may enter. Carriers aren't explicitly excluded, but the tonnage limit effectively excludes them.

[MaxQue]

It's not going to end well for the ethnic minorities in Crimea...

I'm far more concerned for the non-Ukrainians in Ukraine.

Thank you for the new USSR propaganda, but we don't need it.

I fail to see any resemblance between Putin's right-wing oligarchy and the Soviet Union, nor do I see how acknowledging the open racism of much of the new Ukrainian government is "propaganda".

Putin's dream isrecreating the former USSR, minus its economy.

[Tender Branson]

Well, if there's a war there's at least Slovakia in between ...

Now, enough with the jokes - too serious the situation ...

[You kip if you want to...]

I suppose all this stuff with Russia just proves Sarah Palin right.

[Peeperkorn]

Snowstalker's heroes:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26400276

[Beet]

Putin is scary... I had this feeling during Georgia 2008. Countries need to respect other countries' territorial sovereignty. The difference between this and what the U.S. does, the U.S. goes in, installs a new government, and then eventually, for the most part, leaves. Iraq, today, is effectively independent. It's not clear if that's the intention in Crimea. This would be more like the U.S. invading Nova Scotia. It has the appearance of a naked land grab. Exactly the kind of behavior the U.S. intervened in the first Gulf war to stop. If this kind of behavior is allowed to go forward, international relations could start devolving into a pre-WWII type situation where larger states simply gobble up smaller ones.

[Beezer]

One thing's for sure though...after this a majority of Ukrainians will never again allow their country to fall under Russia's sphere of influence.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Snowstalker's heroes:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26400276

Both sides strike me as quite awful, as is the case in most international conflicts. This is the problem that arises when you have a revolution without the element of class struggle.

One thing's for sure though...after this a majority of Ukrainians will never again allow their country to fall under Russia's sphere of influence.

Being under Merkel's sphere of influence isn't much better.

[Beezer]

Being under Merkel's sphere of influence isn't much better.

Yes cause German troops are rolling thru the streets of Athens. :hündinbitte:

[MaxQue]

Being under Merkel's sphere of influence isn't much better.

Yes cause German troops are rolling thru the streets of Athens. :hündinbitte:

You can't blame him, sovietic propaganda made him insane.

[Хahar 🤔]

Putin is scary... I had this feeling during Georgia 2008. Countries need to respect other countries' territorial sovereignty. The difference between this and what the U.S. does, the U.S. goes in, installs a new government, and then eventually, for the most part, leaves. Iraq, today, is effectively independent. It's not clear if that's the intention in Crimea. This would be more like the U.S. invading Nova Scotia. It has the appearance of a naked land grab. Exactly the kind of behavior the U.S. intervened in the first Gulf war to stop. If this kind of behavior is allowed to go forward, international relations could start devolving into a pre-WWII type situation where larger states simply gobble up smaller ones.

That would be a reasonable analogy if the majority of the population of Nova Scotia identified as American.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Being under Merkel's sphere of influence isn't much better.

Yes cause German troops are rolling thru the streets of Athens. :hündinbitte:

You can't blame him, sovietic propaganda made him insane.

For the millionth time, opposition to the current Ukrainian government=/=support for Yanukovych or Putin.

[MaxQue]

Being under Merkel's sphere of influence isn't much better.

Yes cause German troops are rolling thru the streets of Athens. :hündinbitte:

You can't blame him, sovietic propaganda made him insane.

For the millionth time, opposition to the current Ukrainian government=/=support for Yanukovych or Putin.

Comparing Merkel to Putin is supporting Putin, as one is clearly worse than the other one (and it's coming from someone strongly disliking Merkel).

[Peeperkorn]

Poland:

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[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

One thing's for sure though...after this a majority of Ukrainians will never again allow their country to fall under Russia's sphere of influence.

I wish things were that simple.

[MasterJedi]

I suppose all this stuff with Russia just proves Sarah Palin right.

You mean Romney, when he said Russia and not China was the US's number one foe. Then he got hammered on and ridiculed.

[Хahar 🤔]

Perhaps it may not be appropriate for a prospective world leader to be making enemies lists.

[Famous Mortimer]

I suppose all this stuff with Russia just proves Sarah Palin right.

You mean Romney, when he said Russia and not China was the US's number one foe. Then he got hammered on and ridiculed.

Russia still isn't our foe. They aren't threatening the United States at all.

[MaxQue]

I suppose all this stuff with Russia just proves Sarah Palin right.

You mean Romney, when he said Russia and not China was the US's number one foe. Then he got hammered on and ridiculed.

He was right, but it's not the kind of thing you say in public. Why not mailing them the position of all American soldiers around the world, too?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

So, did the fiscal conservatives invade the social conservatives??

[MaxQue]

So, did the fiscal conservatives invade the social conservatives??

No, the ex-socialists invaded social conservative land, with the support the social conservatives, against fiscal conservatives, if I remember well.

[Zanas]

Being under Merkel's sphere of influence isn't much better.

Yes cause German troops are rolling thru the streets of Athens. :hündinbitte:

You can't blame him, sovietic propaganda made him insane.

For the millionth time, opposition to the current Ukrainian government=/=support for Yanukovych or Putin.

Comparing Merkel to Putin is supporting Putin, as one is clearly worse than the other one (and it's coming from someone strongly disliking Merkel).

FWIW, Snowstalker said that being under Merkel's sphere isn't much better than under Putin's and I kind of agree with him. Of course it's not the same, but in the latter you have no right whatsoever, whereas in the former you are slowly stripped of all the rights your parents once had without being able to do anything about it because IMF and sh**t.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I suppose all this stuff with Russia just proves Sarah Palin right.

You mean Romney, when he said Russia and not China was the US's number one foe. Then he got hammered on and ridiculed.

Russia still isn't our foe. They aren't threatening the United States at all.

Russia still can quite effectively block American moves in foreign policy, as we saw in 2013.

[Famous Mortimer]

I suppose all this stuff with Russia just proves Sarah Palin right.

You mean Romney, when he said Russia and not China was the US's number one foe. Then he got hammered on and ridiculed.

Russia still isn't our foe. They aren't threatening the United States at all.

Russia still can quite effectively block American moves in foreign policy, as we saw in 2013.

Are you talking about Syria? Basically everyone agrees Russia did us a favor in that regard.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

I suppose all this stuff with Russia just proves Sarah Palin right.

You mean Romney, when he said Russia and not China was the US's number one foe. Then he got hammered on and ridiculed.

To be fair, China must be on a high right now. Let the West and Russia duke it out, in the meantime they'd be happy to watch.