Trump Jr./Russian lawyer meeting: Jr. knew info was part of Russian Gov effort

[WritOfCertiorari]

And that's all I plan to comment on the Russia-Trump stories.

What if Mueller ends up bringing indictments against a slew of people around Trump for actually colluding with Russia in some way or another? And if he recommends to the House impeachment against Trump?

If they feel there is sufficient evidence to support that, then he should be indicted and impeached. I never said I didn't believe collusion was possible; I simply said I am, thus far, remaining a skeptic on the matter due to the parties involved.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't believe in any conspiracies. Nobody is creating fake evidence to use against Trump or his team; I believe whatever they find is genuine. But as it stands there has not been any evidence that has amounted to transforming this investigation into an actual indictment of anyone. That could change at any time, especially considering Trump & co.'s sheer incompetence and stupidity, but so far, that has not happened. What I've been saying is that I distrust the deep state because I believe they have financial and political motivations to oppose the Trump Administration's position on Russia due to their desire to relaunch a Cold War with the Russians. That has been evident for years now. What also disturbs me is how Democrats have been so willing to ally with the deep state and Neoconservatives to, knowingly or not, fan the flames of a Cold War 2.0. It's what the deep state has been craving; look at Romney's campaign, the campaigns of other Republicans in 2016, the Clinton campaign, Neoconservative journalists and think tanks, etc... Democrats are cozying up with the wrong crowd for political purposes - and that's what bothers me. What happens when Democrats take power in 2020 or 2024? What will be our approach to Russia? What role will Neoconservatives and the deep state be delegated in that Administration?

Tl;dr Trump may have colluded with Russia, but Russia did not successfully hack our election or endanger our democracy. If collusion is proved, then he should be indicted and impeached. However, the motivation thus far by the deep state and Neoconservatives has been their staunch opposition to Trump's friendly approach to Russia, with which they want to create Cold War 2.0 and have been quite vocal about for years now. They've been making such noise about all this, and Democrats have been happy to aid them, for political purposes. It doesn't matter whether all these investigations amount to something or nothing; they want to destabilize and delegitimize the Trump Administration, not out of patriotism, but disagreements over foreign policy.

Not to be a smartass, but impeachment is the equivalent of indictment. He would be impeached and convicted.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

And according to the "new guy" the Trumps took printed copies from the Russians.

Why would they do that if they weren't impressed?

Which new guy? The ex-Soviet officer or the other mysterious attendee Trump Jr and Kushner forgot?

And what's the betting that this other guy was also linked to Fusion GPS and their NeverTrump/DNC paymasters  just like Veselnitskaya and Akhmetshin?

I agree that the Fusion GPS connection in this story is weird, and I posted as much when the story broke. But I think you're looking at the connection the wrong way around. Veselnitskaya's main jobs, and the two thing she was most associated with before this whole meeting kerfuffle was as a lobbyist against the Magnitsky Act and as lawyer for Denis Katsyv, who was at the center of the greater Magnitsky case.

Katsyv was accused of receiving stolen funds from the Russian state and funneling them into a firm buying luxury Wall Street apartments. In 2013 he was charged by Preet Bharara for laundering money through a company called Hermitage Capital Management, which was founded and run by Bill Browder, a former ally of Putin who was blacklisted in 2005. In 2009, a lawyer working for Hermitage Capital Management died after being beaten and mistreated in prison on tax charges. The US in tern slapped Russia with the Magnitsky act, imposing sanctions against various Russian officials associated with the case.

The choice of Veselnitskaya to meet with the Trump campaign regardless of who sent her was almost indisputably related to her campaign against the Magnitsky Act. It doesn't make sense to send someone with her resume for any other reason. Trump Jr. himself said that discussion of the case took up a majority of the meeting, and he wouldn't have taken it had he known that was going to be the topic of discussion.

Trump Jr. is not credible, particularly in this instance. When he released the emails, he already knew the NYT had them. He has repeatedly demonstrated to be lying about other aspects of the meeting.

It almost appears as though the idea was to "come clean" about the emails, in the hope that his version of events would then be accepted across the board. Thinking that we know the topics of discussion on the basis of anything anyone involved with the meeting says would be a mistake.

[Yank2133]

Jared is getting a new lawyer.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-shakes-legal-team-probe-gathers-steam-191810956.html

[ProudModerate2]

Jared is getting a new lawyer.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-shakes-legal-team-probe-gathers-steam-191810956.html

LOL.
They are all scrambling like rats, not knowing what to do or where to go.
Throw them all in the Big House.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Lewandowski wrongly says Trump in Florida day of Trump Tower meeting with Russian lawyer

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/jul/14/corey-lewandowski/lewandowski-wrongly-says-trump-florida-day-trump-t/

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I am starting to wonder if Trump Sr. was not at the meeting himself and Jr (and Kushner) have been attempting to cover for him. (Which would, of course, just make him look even guiltier.)

[GeorgiaModerate]

From the NYT reporter on this ongoing story:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[NeederNodder]

Jared is getting a new lawyer.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-shakes-legal-team-probe-gathers-steam-191810956.html

Just imagine what Mueller has if even Jared's lawyers drop his case.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I don't see this linked anywhere yet, so I figured I'd throw it onto the dumpster fire. (Apologies if I missed that this was already linked.)

Sen. Grassley (R-IA) wrote the Secretary of Homeland Security Kelly back in April inquiring about Rinat Akhmetshin's ties to Russian intelligence:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2017-04-04%20CEG%20to%20DHS%20(Akhmetshin%20Information)%20with%20attachment.pdf

[ApatheticAustrian]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-lawyer-who-trump-jr-met-says-she-was-in-contact-with-top-russian-prosecutor-1500063809


BAM

[Santander]

Shep Smith and Chris Wallace are (unsurprisingly) not impressed with Trump Jr.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/07/14/chris-wallace-donald-trump-jr-russia-story-advice-president-admin

Meanwhile, Kucinich says the meetings are "nothing".

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/07/14/dennis-kucinich-donald-trump-jr-russian-lawyer-meeting-alleged-collusion-crime

[Person Man]

It's funny. If it was such a small nothingburger meeting, why so many lies about it? Every time Jr opens his mouth, five hours later, the New York Times rolls out a story disproving whatever came out of it.

Because small minded folks like us don't understand Covfefe.

[Hindsight was 2020]

I just can't see how Trumpers can side with the administration after Jr just lied on Hannity

[Devout Centrist]

From the NYT reporter on this ongoing story:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Who is the last person?

[Beet]

And that's all I plan to comment on the Russia-Trump stories.

What if Mueller ends up bringing indictments against a slew of people around Trump for actually colluding with Russia in some way or another? And if he recommends to the House impeachment against Trump?

If they feel there is sufficient evidence to support that, then he should be indicted and impeached. I never said I didn't believe collusion was possible; I simply said I am, thus far, remaining a skeptic on the matter due to the parties involved.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't believe in any conspiracies. Nobody is creating fake evidence to use against Trump or his team; I believe whatever they find is genuine. But as it stands there has not been any evidence that has amounted to transforming this investigation into an actual indictment of anyone. That could change at any time, especially considering Trump & co.'s sheer incompetence and stupidity, but so far, that has not happened. What I've been saying is that I distrust the deep state because I believe they have financial and political motivations to oppose the Trump Administration's position on Russia due to their desire to relaunch a Cold War with the Russians. That has been evident for years now. What also disturbs me is how Democrats have been so willing to ally with the deep state and Neoconservatives to, knowingly or not, fan the flames of a Cold War 2.0. It's what the deep state has been craving; look at Romney's campaign, the campaigns of other Republicans in 2016, the Clinton campaign, Neoconservative journalists and think tanks, etc... Democrats are cozying up with the wrong crowd for political purposes - and that's what bothers me. What happens when Democrats take power in 2020 or 2024? What will be our approach to Russia? What role will Neoconservatives and the deep state be delegated in that Administration?

Tl;dr Trump may have colluded with Russia, but Russia did not successfully hack our election or endanger our democracy. If collusion is proved, then he should be indicted and impeached. However, the motivation thus far by the deep state and Neoconservatives has been their staunch opposition to Trump's friendly approach to Russia, with which they want to create Cold War 2.0 and have been quite vocal about for years now. They've been making such noise about all this, and Democrats have been happy to aid them, for political purposes. It doesn't matter whether all these investigations amount to something or nothing; they want to destabilize and delegitimize the Trump Administration, not out of patriotism, but disagreements over foreign policy.

A democracy can't survive if partisan differences within it are greater than its citizens' identification to it over foreign autocracies. Then this country just becomes a playground for every foreign power.

[Person Man]

And that's all I plan to comment on the Russia-Trump stories.

What if Mueller ends up bringing indictments against a slew of people around Trump for actually colluding with Russia in some way or another? And if he recommends to the House impeachment against Trump?

If they feel there is sufficient evidence to support that, then he should be indicted and impeached. I never said I didn't believe collusion was possible; I simply said I am, thus far, remaining a skeptic on the matter due to the parties involved.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't believe in any conspiracies. Nobody is creating fake evidence to use against Trump or his team; I believe whatever they find is genuine. But as it stands there has not been any evidence that has amounted to transforming this investigation into an actual indictment of anyone. That could change at any time, especially considering Trump & co.'s sheer incompetence and stupidity, but so far, that has not happened. What I've been saying is that I distrust the deep state because I believe they have financial and political motivations to oppose the Trump Administration's position on Russia due to their desire to relaunch a Cold War with the Russians. That has been evident for years now. What also disturbs me is how Democrats have been so willing to ally with the deep state and Neoconservatives to, knowingly or not, fan the flames of a Cold War 2.0. It's what the deep state has been craving; look at Romney's campaign, the campaigns of other Republicans in 2016, the Clinton campaign, Neoconservative journalists and think tanks, etc... Democrats are cozying up with the wrong crowd for political purposes - and that's what bothers me. What happens when Democrats take power in 2020 or 2024? What will be our approach to Russia? What role will Neoconservatives and the deep state be delegated in that Administration?

Tl;dr Trump may have colluded with Russia, but Russia did not successfully hack our election or endanger our democracy. If collusion is proved, then he should be indicted and impeached. However, the motivation thus far by the deep state and Neoconservatives has been their staunch opposition to Trump's friendly approach to Russia, with which they want to create Cold War 2.0 and have been quite vocal about for years now. They've been making such noise about all this, and Democrats have been happy to aid them, for political purposes. It doesn't matter whether all these investigations amount to something or nothing; they want to destabilize and delegitimize the Trump Administration, not out of patriotism, but disagreements over foreign policy.

A democracy can't survive if partisan differences within it are greater than its citizens' identification to it over foreign autocracies. Then this country just becomes a playground for every foreign power.

Welcome to the Fifth Century.

[ProudModerate2]

From the NYT reporter on this ongoing story:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Who is the last person?

I think we are a total of 8 people, so far.
And who knows how many more will be discovered. The truth of the matter is that scumbag trump jr is not so "transparent" as The Deplorables claim him to be.
This is what CNN is saying :

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[EnglishPete]

Hence, whoever prompted Veselnitskaya to take the meeting had to have some stake in the repeal of the Magnitsky Act, or at least making sure that the Trump campaign was in favor of its repeal.

No, whoever set up the meeting had some stake in it being a set up. Sending along a couple of anti-Magnitsky Act lobbyists they were connected to makes perfect sense from that point of view.

[EnglishPete]

I just can't see how Trumpers can side with the administration after Jr just lied on Hannity

Lied about what? You mean he failed to mention a couple of people in the room who, by all accounts, he had no interaction with? Did he fail to mention all the furniture in the room as well, all the fixtures and fittings, was that a lie as well?

[Silent Hunter]

Wilful and deliberate omission of a significant and relevant fact about an event is pretty much a lie.

[EnglishPete]

Wilful and deliberate omission of a significant and relevant fact about an event is pretty much a lie.

What significant and relevant fact? That there were a couple of other people in the room, evidently this other Russian lobbyist and his translator, with whom (by all accounts) neither he nor Kushner nor Manafort had any interaction with in the short meeting. He had no reason to think that there presence was "significant and relevant", he didn't speak with them and they didn't hear anything that the first Russian didn't also hear i.e. the Russian lawyer making her pitch and then Trump Jr shutting down the meeting as soon as he realised it was a bait and switch. Like I said you may as well say that his failure to mention the furniture in the room or the haircuts of the participants was a "lie"

[EnglishPete]

Sure you could say the meeting was just a formality and the real trap was the email to Trump Jr, but then there's the question of "what if he just did what anyone would expect him to do and go straight to the FBI?" Where would Fusion GPS be then?

Just to address this point quickly I would say in that case Fusion GPS would be just fine. Remember they're working with the NeverTrumpers with the approval of the Obama admin. If someone had reported this to the FBI, which I think is rather less what people at that level would expect than you think but never mind, then what would happen. Fusion GPS would report to their politically well connected paymasters, who would have quiet "between you, me and the gatepost" conversations with the politically well connected bosses of the FBI like Comey. They in turn would pass the down the line to the FBI agents who took the information the message that "This looks like bullsh**t boasting to us but we'll make sure it gets looked into from here. Thank you agent I'll take this from here"

What makes no sense whatsoever is that if Goldstone actually were passing on details of a secret Russian plot that he would include "this is from the Russian government" in the e-mail knowing that e-mail gets spied on by the US (and other) governments all the time and that such an e-mail could expose him to close scrutiny. He'd have to be pretty naive to put that in an e-mail if he really was working to set up a plot, and that fat mfer doesn't look naive at all to me. It looks very unlikely that he would have written such a thing unless he was confident that wasn't going to happen to him, in other words unless it was a US based set up not a Russian plot.

Charles Krauthammer: Trump Jr. emails are evidence of 'collusion'

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/14/media/charles-krauthammer-donald-trump-jr-collusion/index.html

Hold the front page! Nevertrumper pundit climbs aboard the anti Trump bandwagon (again)!

[The Other Castro]

I just don't understand why people like EnglishPete are trying to "win" the discussion here. There is no winning to be had, and nothing you post here will have any impact on anything that happens. It'd be nice if we could have threads that don't get derailed from legitimate discussion about new developments in stories like these, but apparently we can't have that.

[EnglishPete]

I just don't understand why people like EnglishPete are trying to "win" the discussion here. There is no winning to be had, and nothing you post here will have any impact on anything that happens. It'd be nice if we could have threads that don't get derailed from legitimate discussion about new developments in stories like these, but apparently we can't have that.

Discussing politics on discussion boards like this is a hobby of mine just like it is for you. I'm quite happy engaging in legitimate discussion here, it seems you would prefer if the discussion was one sided. If you think my posts are too partisan I'd point out that my posting is rather less heatedly partisan than posts by people like Proudmoderate2 etc in this thread.

[Person Man]

I just don't understand why people like EnglishPete are trying to "win" the discussion here. There is no winning to be had, and nothing you post here will have any impact on anything that happens. It'd be nice if we could have threads that don't get derailed from legitimate discussion about new developments in stories like these, but apparently we can't have that.

Discussing politics on discussion boards like this is a hobby of mine just like it is for you. I'm quite happy engaging in legitimate discussion here, it seems you would prefer if the discussion was one sided. If you think my posts are too partisan I'd point out that my posting is rather less heatedly partisan than posts by people like Proudmoderate2 etc in this thread.

There really isn't another side besides "bothsidez do it!!1" or muh "THIS IS A VAST LEFT WING CONSPIRACY".

[Virginiá]

I just don't understand why people like EnglishPete are trying to "win" the discussion here. There is no winning to be had, and nothing you post here will have any impact on anything that happens. It'd be nice if we could have threads that don't get derailed from legitimate discussion about new developments in stories like these, but apparently we can't have that.

I feel like EnglishPete comes here solely to turn every thread about the Russia scandal into a CNN panel where he channels Jeffrey Lord in a bid to drive everyone's blood pressure up.

In that sense, his responses are predictable. For any revelation that comes out, it's just some variation of him disputing it, sometimes using random blogs and maybe Breitbart as his sources "interesting theories."