Trump Jr./Russian lawyer meeting: Jr. knew info was part of Russian Gov effort

[GeorgiaModerate]

Also from this new article, Trump Jr. has changed his story from yesterday about the meeting's contents:

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It's not the first time he's changed his story:

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[GeorgiaModerate]

Richard Painter (ethics lawyer under GW Bush) says that this borders on treason:

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[GeorgiaModerate]

No law breaking activities that I've read about here.  Bad optics, but that's nothing new.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/11/110.20 may apply here. 

Withholding the information from his security clearance forms is clearly a violation of the law.

Also, hacking computers and stealing emails are crimes under U.S. law.  If a person goes to a fence and offers to buy a TV they know or suspect is stolen, they are also guilty of receiving stolen goods.  This situation is analogous.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Trump Jr. lawyers up:

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[GeorgiaModerate]

IF THIS TURNS-OUT TO BE TRUE, THIS IS HUGE & DEVASTATING NEWS !! Per the New York Times article :

Email Is Said to Indicate Clinton Dirt Was Part of Russian Plan to Aid Trump.

• The message was sent by the man who helped broker a meeting between Donald Trump Jr. and a Russian lawyer to discuss information damaging to Hillary Clinton.
• As it was described to The Times by three people, the email indicates that the Russian government was the source of the information.

Link: https://www.nytimes.com/?action=click&contentCollection=Politics&region=TopBar&module=HomePage-Button&pgtype=article&WT.z_jog=1&hF=t&vS=undefined

"Part of".  Hmmmmmmm.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Schiff says that the House Intel committee has much more info on the Russia investigation that has not been made public: http://thehill.com/homenews/house/341417-top-intel-dem-warns-trump-jr-we-have-much-more-intel-than-what-public-knows

[GeorgiaModerate]

You guys realize your "collusion" narrative is hilarious since no one is better at digging up dirt than the Clintons, right?  They're just smarter about it.  Every campaign has a dirt digging operation, from your local councilman to the top doggie.

Yes, every candidate performs opposition research.  If this were ordinary opposition research, nobody would care about that.  But in this case, we have what looks like use of criminally obtained material by a foreign government's intelligence service.  Do you really not see a difference?

[GeorgiaModerate]

You guys realize your "collusion" narrative is hilarious since no one is better at digging up dirt than the Clintons, right?  They're just smarter about it.  Every campaign has a dirt digging operation, from your local councilman to the top doggie.

Yes, every candidate performs opposition research.  If this were ordinary opposition research, nobody would care about that. But in this case, we have what looks like use of criminally obtained material by a foreign government's intelligence service.  Do you really not see a difference?

Of course, I just haven't seen what you see.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2017/07/11/the-medias-mass-hysteria-over-collusion-is-out-of-control/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.cfee34b5c234

I'll be the first to admit this is far from proven at this point.  But the information so far is troubling, and keeps becoming more so.  Want to meet me halfway and acknowledge that it's a possibility and bears further investigation?

[GeorgiaModerate]

Trump Jr. is posting the entire email chain on Twitter.  These don't look too good for him IMO.  What is he thinking?

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/884789418455953413

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/884789839522140166

[GeorgiaModerate]

"A Russian government attorney"

"This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump"

Wow, this looks bad.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Trump Jr. just confirmed he solicited a contribution from a foreign entity. He admitted it. Wtf is he doing and where is his lawyer?

On the window ledge outside his office, probably.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Adam Goldman of the NYT:

Update 2: I am still reporting.

Too bad he didn't tweet "tick tick tick"!

[GeorgiaModerate]

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Does that mean it's easy to see through him?

[GeorgiaModerate]

Man checking on Twitter and other social media Trumpers are really trying to somehow make Jr a hero for being transparent. An that right there is why they chose Trump cause they now the RW will twist itself into a pretzel to defend "their side" no matter how blantenly bad

Good grief.  He only released the emails because he knew the Times was about to do so.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Alt-right twitter (Cernovich, Menk, Paul Joseph Watson) Is now trying to hilariously conjure up a story where Hillary colluded with Ukraine in the election. That is probably the most pathetic attack on Clinton yet.

Well, we can rule out any similar emails from the Clinton camp.  Considering that the Russians, WikiLeaks, and the FBI (at least) have seen her emails, they'd undoubtedly have come out by now.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Alt-right twitter (Cernovich, Menk, Paul Joseph Watson) Is now trying to hilariously conjure up a story where Hillary colluded with Ukraine in the election. That is probably the most pathetic attack on Clinton yet.

Who would bother colluding with Ukraine? If you're going to cheat, conspire, etc., you'll pick a country that has the power to make a difference in our election...

The next logical step in this chain is that Russia invaded Ukraine in order to protect the integrity of American elections.  If some RW pundit actually says this, remember that you heard it here first.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Why do I have the feeling more bombshells are coming down the pike?

McCain, yesterday: "There'll be many more shoes that drop."  http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-jr-email-russia-john-mccain-says-more-bombshells-on-trump-and-russia-are-coming-2017-7

Schiff, yesterday: "There's an awful lot more [intelligence] than that's even in the public domain."  http://thehill.com/homenews/house/341417-top-intel-dem-warns-trump-jr-we-have-much-more-intel-than-what-public-knows

John Schindler (IC expert), many times, most recently today: "More and worse is coming, as I've said many times." https://twitter.com/20committee/status/885119452697812993

Etc.

That could be why.

[GeorgiaModerate]

But you and others should keep in mind that endless arguing helps drive other potential discussion away.

What do you think his goal is?

Personally, I think it's healthy to have a useful discussion from all parts of the political spectrum. Some of the posters on both ends can get annoying, but to me it's worthwhile to see their viewpoints.  However, EnglishPete is a different case.  He seems to be more interested in bogging down threads with argument and inhibiting that kind of discussion.  I put him on Ignore some time ago, and it has noticeably improved my Atlas experience.

[GeorgiaModerate]

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[GeorgiaModerate]

From the NYT reporter on this ongoing story:

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[GeorgiaModerate]

#17 seems particularly on point here.

[GeorgiaModerate]

We need a Nixon Impeachment thread so I can go full EnglishPete. I keep wanting to argue that Nixon's impeachment was a real witch hunt by Tip O'Neill and his Democratic gang but keep feeling the thread isn't the right place for it. OTOH, it might not be the wisest thing to demonstrate my rabid Nixon bonafides.

Eh, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

As you were.

Go for it. History board is open for that sort of thing.

Especially since it was a witch hunt since Nixon's main problem was Bobby's crash at Chappaquiddick denied him the chance to beat a Kennedy for a change.

Teddy, not Bobby.  I actually have a newspaper that I saved from Apollo 11's landing on the moon (July 20, 1969) and it has a tiny article on the front page talking about Sen. Kennedy being involved in a car accident at Chappaquiddick.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Also, I would advise checking this out, it's a great read. Here are the main points with more details found in the article.

Lawfare's Seven Theories of Trump/Russia Collusion

#1: It’s All a Giant Set of Coincidences and Disconnected Events

#2: Trump Attracted Russophiles

#3: The Russian Operation Wasn’t Really About Trump at All

#4: Russian Intelligence Actively Penetrated the Trump Campaign—But Trump Didn’t Know

#5: Russian Intelligence Actively Penetrated the Trump Campaign—And Trump Knew or Should Have Known

#6: Kompromat

#7: The President of the United States is a Russian Agent

https://www.lawfareblog.com/seven-theories-case-what-do-we-really-know-about-laffaire-russe-and-what-could-it-all-mean

That's the best article I've seen yet on this affair.  Thanks for posting the link.  IMO #4 and #5 seem like the most plausible.

[GeorgiaModerate]

How about having two megathreads for Trump/Russia, one limited to non-partisan reporting of events and discussion, and the other open to partisan posts?

(This is a serious suggestion.)

[GeorgiaModerate]

Could Trump Jr., Kushner, or Manafort Be Charged Under the Espionage Act?