Peruvian presidential election (2nd round) – June 5, 2016

[warandwar]

I don't know how to feel about Fujimori. It seems like there is a good deal of debate about whether he was a dictator or not... but in either case, perhaps his daughter could turn out to be like Park Geun-hye.

I suppose, as of right now, I'm rooting for whoever Peru Possible puts up.

Yeah, besides the forced sterilizations, public corruption, extrajudicial killings and making me choke up in my grandparents car after the end of the audiobook of Bel Canto, there's so much to like!

[warandwar]

Fujimori is unquestionably a dictator. It's just that outside of the richest first world countries, being a dictator isn't a deal breaker.

He's in jail for some extrajudicial killings carried out by the military. Worst case scenario though, these killings were simply a mistake. Fujimori's own claim is that the people killed were Shinning Path sympathizers, in which case, no one would even care.

As for the corruption, that's a legit issue but it's a poor Latin American country, everyone is corrupt. So it's not that big an issue.

Fujimori was eventually chased out of power but it wasn't really for anything he did in particular. Every president of Peru for the last 20 years has ended their term with approval ratings in the single digits.

Short of magically making everyone rich, there's really nothing a Peruvian politician can do to avoid being hated once in office.

He was chased out for a fairly specific reason: he demanded to get a third term, counter to his own constitution, and proceeded to run elections viewed as completely illegitimate.

You're implying with your language that Peru, by nature of its own culture, is corrupt. That's not a great thing to say, but it's certainly a common view about non-first world countries in the United States. What really troubles me is that you see the "worst case" scenario of killing innocent people as "simply a mistake." By saying this you are not only downplaying a fairly heinous action (Is Kent State "simply a mistake"?) but also putting Peruvian lives on a lower level than American ones. Do you really view "accidently" killing Peruvians as not that much of a problem? Are their lives worth less because of where they live? Is Fujimori's unpopularity the fault of Peruvians, who hate anyone that doesn't "magically make them rich?"
It seems like you believe in Worthington's Law (a Mr. Show reference I think you'll get): More Money = Better Than

[warandwar]

Fujimori is unquestionably a dictator. It's just that outside of the richest first world countries, being a dictator isn't a deal breaker.

He's in jail for some extrajudicial killings carried out by the military. Worst case scenario though, these killings were simply a mistake. Fujimori's own claim is that the people killed were Shinning Path sympathizers, in which case, no one would even care.

As for the corruption, that's a legit issue but it's a poor Latin American country, everyone is corrupt. So it's not that big an issue.

Fujimori was eventually chased out of power but it wasn't really for anything he did in particular. Every president of Peru for the last 20 years has ended their term with approval ratings in the single digits.

Short of magically making everyone rich, there's really nothing a Peruvian politician can do to avoid being hated once in office.

He was chased out for a fairly specific reason: he demanded to get a third term, counter to his own constitution, and proceeded to run elections viewed as completely illegitimate.

You're implying with your language that Peru, by nature of its own culture, is corrupt. That's not a great thing to say, but it's certainly a common view about non-first world countries in the United States. What really troubles me is that you see the "worst case" scenario of killing innocent people as "simply a mistake." By saying this you are not only downplaying a fairly heinous action (Is Kent State "simply a mistake"?) but also putting Peruvian lives on a lower level than American ones. Do you really view "accidently" killing Peruvians as not that much of a problem? Are their lives worth less because of where they live? Is Fujimori's unpopularity the fault of Peruvians, who hate anyone that doesn't "magically make them rich?"
It seems like you believe in Worthington's Law (a Mr. Show reference I think you'll get): More Money = Better Than

Richard Nixon was never put on trial for Kent State. Nor do I think most people think he should have been.

Since you're cherry picking one example from that, I'm going to assume you don't actually care that you're using neocolonialist language.
My point was that Kent State is universally viewed as a national tragedy, even though it was a "mistake". Do you see where I'm going here? It's almost like reading the wikipedia summary of Fujimori won't give you the full picture.

[warandwar]

Fujimori is unquestionably a dictator. It's just that outside of the richest first world countries, being a dictator isn't a deal breaker.

He's in jail for some extrajudicial killings carried out by the military. Worst case scenario though, these killings were simply a mistake. Fujimori's own claim is that the people killed were Shinning Path sympathizers, in which case, no one would even care.

As for the corruption, that's a legit issue but it's a poor Latin American country, everyone is corrupt. So it's not that big an issue.

Fujimori was eventually chased out of power but it wasn't really for anything he did in particular. Every president of Peru for the last 20 years has ended their term with approval ratings in the single digits.

Short of magically making everyone rich, there's really nothing a Peruvian politician can do to avoid being hated once in office.

He was chased out for a fairly specific reason: he demanded to get a third term, counter to his own constitution, and proceeded to run elections viewed as completely illegitimate.

You're implying with your language that Peru, by nature of its own culture, is corrupt. That's not a great thing to say, but it's certainly a common view about non-first world countries in the United States. What really troubles me is that you see the "worst case" scenario of killing innocent people as "simply a mistake." By saying this you are not only downplaying a fairly heinous action (Is Kent State "simply a mistake"?) but also putting Peruvian lives on a lower level than American ones. Do you really view "accidently" killing Peruvians as not that much of a problem? Are their lives worth less because of where they live? Is Fujimori's unpopularity the fault of Peruvians, who hate anyone that doesn't "magically make them rich?"
It seems like you believe in Worthington's Law (a Mr. Show reference I think you'll get): More Money = Better Than

Richard Nixon was never put on trial for Kent State. Nor do I think most people think he should have been.

Since you're cherry picking one example from that, I'm going to assume you don't actually care that you're using neocolonialist language.
My point was that Kent State is universally viewed as a national tragedy, even though it was a "mistake". Do you see where I'm going here? It's almost like reading the wikipedia summary of Fujimori won't give you the full picture.

I'm using the example you provided.

I don't know what neo-colonial language you're talking about in this instance. I'm treating Peru the same way I would treat the US. If the US Air Force accidentally dropped a bomb on some random citizen's house I would assume it was a horrible mistake and I would not hold Obama personally responsible.

No, I don't see where you are going. Just because the military did something bad, it does not mean the president is personally responsible. The president might be in charge of overall military strategy but rarely do they mico-manage every individual military action.

My point is that you're devaluing Peruvian lives. It's not about the specific actions that occured, but your decision to call killing innocent people "simply a mistake".
Groupa Collina was a death squad. Fujimori set it up with the express desire to, you know, cause people to die. He personally authorized their actions, if you're caught up in the details.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/world/americas/08fujimori.html?_r=0

You don't drop a bomb by accident, you do it for a reason. Whether it kills the people you intended it to kill or not, you have still made the irrevocable decision to drop the bomb. Perhaps some of the children killed by Groupa Collina were engaged in terrorist activities. Perhaps everyone was. That doesn't change Fujimori's decision to create a death squad that operated in secret. He pulled the trigger right there. By marginalizing the fact that he did this, you marginalize the suffering caused by these actions. Your finger moves on top of Fujimori's, and you slowly press down at the same time he does. Why do you press?
Maybe you did it by accident.
You really don't know what you're talking about.

[warandwar]

Again, I'm not devaluing Peruvian lives. I'm valuing them exactly as much as I would value American or any other lives. You're still claiming otherwise, although you haven't actually made any arguments to that effect.

Then you are a nihilist.

[warandwar]

I find it amusing the two leading candidates are Japanese and Polish. Also wtf is up with PPK's logo?

Looks like a guinea pig. They are a common animal in Peru. Lots of parties use chickens or cows as logos.

Chicken of the Andes

[warandwar]

One thing I noticed about the last few Peru elections is that in the elections 2001 2006 2011 the second place finisher of the previous election goes on the win the next one.  Toledo for coming in second in 2000 and then winning 2001.  García for coming in second 2001 followed by winning in 2006.  Humala for coming in second 2006 followed by winning in 2011.      If so then 2016 looks very good for Keiko Fujimori especially when she is currently the front runner anyway.

I know a lot of Peruvians who would be flabbergasted.

Well, I tend to back the Fujimori clan in Peru all things equal.  Of course as a Chinese guy it is hard not to back someone called "El Chino."

Extrajudicial execution fan?

[warandwar]

When I traveled to Peru over the summer (I spent around two weeks in the Huaraz area), an overwhelming majority of signs that I saw (in Peru, election ads and slogans are frequently painted on the walls of buildings, especially ones by roadways) were the orange K of Keiko Fujimori, with Alan Garcia's being a distant second. Signs don't vote (and in a Latin American country with significant socioeconomic stratification, that may be especially true), but just saying.

I'm not sure if that is necessarily indicative of popular support. Seems more like party wealth/strength.