Abortion

[Brambila]

Since 1973, an average of 1.3 million abortions are done annually. three to four thousand are done daily.

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It's not a religious or moral view. It's murder. You've ignored that fact. Abortion is the murder of a human being. Do you realize that?

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Partial Birth Abortion ban has been passed, no federal support for abortion clinics... a lot has been passed. Bush has taken little steps, but Kerry will do more harm. I'd rather vote for somebody who has a chance of making things better than somebody who will probably make things worse.

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Slavery was also legal, my friend. That doesn't mean it's right.

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Explain to me how they are emotional- they're not. I'm simply stating facts. Abortion is the killing of an innocent human being. A person. Therefore, abortion is wrong.

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I'm glad. But tell me, why do you disagree that the fetus isn't murder? Do you not think the fetus is a human being?

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The most recent poll, done by CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP, states that 26% of Americans want abortion always legal, 17% want abortion always illegal, and 55% of americans want abortion illegal in cases of rape, incest, or threat to the mother's life. Meaning, 72% of Americans want abortion illegal in 95% of the cases it's done. No, it's incorrect in saying that 60% of Americans want abortion completely legal. You probably read NBC/Wall Street Poll, which was extremely biased, or asked different questions.

[ElCidGOP]

Hey Mr. Maryland Democrat.  I will put my head up my ass if I want to and I don't think your comment was appropriate for this forum.  Why don't you take you snide, liberal crap to democraticunderground.com or deanforamerica.com if you want post comments like that and talk about my ass.  So I exaggerated a little.   It was a good faith exaggeration.  Were talking in the millions here.  EXCUSE ME, let me set the record straight based on the facts that you provided.  Only 857,457 abortions took place in a year.  I guess that number does look different to you but not to the 857,457 babies who were "aborted."  I am sure the next time I check this forum, you will have posted some other stat that will indicate that 99% of all aborted babies were going to be born without brains or have their hearts growing on their kneecaps.  

In keeping with the facts, the 1999 total pregnancy count includes about 3.96 million live births, 1.31 million induced abortions.  Thats great, in the USA, 1/3 of all pregnancies end in abortion.

You know, I can accept the fact that I got the facts wrong.  But, "your head out of my ass" set me off on this rant.

There are THREE MILLION abortions a year in the United States.  Once again, THAT'S THREE MILLION!  Not four, or ten or even a thousand.  It is not rare, it is RAMPANT.

Get your head out of your ass and get the facts straight:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/releases/03facts/pregbirths.htm



Even a bigger decline going into 2000...

I don't care what your position is, but don't !@#$ with the facts to increase the emotion to your argument. 857,457 looks a lot different than 3 million to me.

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/surv_abort00.htm

[Nation]

Hey Mr. Maryland Democrat.  I will put my head up my ass if I want to and I don't think your comment was appropriate for this forum.  Why don't you take you snide, liberal crap to democraticunderground.com or deanforamerica.com if you want post comments like that and talk about my ass.  So I exaggerated a little.   It was a good faith exaggeration.  Were talking in the millions here.  EXCUSE ME, let me set the record straight based on the facts that you provided.  Only 857,457 abortions took place in a year.  I guess that number does look different to you but not to the 857,457 babies who were "aborted."  I am sure the next time I check this forum, you will have posted some other stat that will indicate that 99% of all aborted babies were going to be born without brains or have their hearts growing on their kneecaps.  

In keeping with the facts, the 1999 total pregnancy count includes about 3.96 million live births, 1.31 million induced abortions.  Thats great, in the USA, 1/3 of all pregnancies end in abortion.

You know, I can accept the fact that I got the facts wrong.  But, "your head out of my ass" set me off on this rant.

There are THREE MILLION abortions a year in the United States.  Once again, THAT'S THREE MILLION!  Not four, or ten or even a thousand.  It is not rare, it is RAMPANT.

Get your head out of your ass and get the facts straight:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/releases/03facts/pregbirths.htm



Even a bigger decline going into 2000...

I don't care what your position is, but don't !@#$ with the facts to increase the emotion to your argument. 857,457 looks a lot different than 3 million to me.

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/surv_abort00.htm

Whatever your arguing, whether it be abortion, the death penalty, social security or Iraq, making up statistics will get you nowhere. You lose a lot of credibility when you do that.

And you exaggerated "a little?"  My friend, you reinforced your original notion that 3 million abortions occur each year with plenty of vigor, as if you knew it to be true.

[Brambila]

ElCid did get the facts wrong, but it was extremely peurile and inappropriate for ofthisnation to make comments like that. You lose prestige when you insult like a child.

Now, why don't you answer my post?

[Nation]

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Slavery was also legal, my friend. That doesn't mean it's right.

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Explain to me how they are emotional- they're not. I'm simply stating facts. Abortion is the killing of an innocent human being. A person. Therefore, abortion is wrong.

You really didn't answer anything I said. The law does not recognize life before a person is born. In the first trimester, a fetus cannot live on its own, it is the mother that determines its fate. Since we have laws that recognize an individual's legality for something at 18 and 21 (18 years from the day we were born) then life begins at birth. Thus, the murder argument doesn't work in court. A woman has a right to privacy (be secure) within her own person. Legal precedent has been set, it's case law.

Abortion is the killing of an innocent human being is your opinion, not a fact. A very strong opinion, of course, but not a fact.

And if you want to call me puerile, spell it right. I'd much rather get correct facts any day of the week.

[ElCidGOP]

OK, ofthisnation, let's bury the hatchet.  Your point is well taken and before I quote stats again, I will make sure I look them up.  

Take it easy.

Hey Mr. Maryland Democrat.  I will put my head up my ass if I want to and I don't think your comment was appropriate for this forum.  Why don't you take you snide, liberal crap to democraticunderground.com or deanforamerica.com if you want post comments like that and talk about my ass.  So I exaggerated a little.   It was a good faith exaggeration.  Were talking in the millions here.  EXCUSE ME, let me set the record straight based on the facts that you provided.  Only 857,457 abortions took place in a year.  I guess that number does look different to you but not to the 857,457 babies who were "aborted."  I am sure the next time I check this forum, you will have posted some other stat that will indicate that 99% of all aborted babies were going to be born without brains or have their hearts growing on their kneecaps.  

In keeping with the facts, the 1999 total pregnancy count includes about 3.96 million live births, 1.31 million induced abortions.  Thats great, in the USA, 1/3 of all pregnancies end in abortion.

You know, I can accept the fact that I got the facts wrong.  But, "your head out of my ass" set me off on this rant.

There are THREE MILLION abortions a year in the United States.  Once again, THAT'S THREE MILLION!  Not four, or ten or even a thousand.  It is not rare, it is RAMPANT.

Get your head out of your ass and get the facts straight:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/releases/03facts/pregbirths.htm



Even a bigger decline going into 2000...

I don't care what your position is, but don't !@#$ with the facts to increase the emotion to your argument. 857,457 looks a lot different than 3 million to me.

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/surv_abort00.htm

Whatever your arguing, whether it be abortion, the death penalty, social security or Iraq, making up statistics will get you nowhere. You lose a lot of credibility when you do that.

And you exaggerated "a little?"  My friend, you reinforced your original notion that 3 million abortions occur each year with plenty of vigor, as if you knew it to be true.

[Nation]

That's all I ask. It will benefit you in the long run when you debate with others, trust me.

[nclib]

There are THREE MILLION abortions a year in the United States.  Once again, THAT'S THREE MILLION!  Not four, or ten or even a thousand.  It is not rare, it is RAMPANT.

Get your head out of your ass and get the facts straight:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/releases/03facts/pregbirths.htm



Even a bigger decline going into 2000...

I don't care what your position is, but don't !@#$ with the facts to increase the emotion to your argument. 857,457 looks a lot different than 3 million to me.

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/surv_abort00.htm

Whether it's 3 million or 857,457, I'll grant that it's a lot. The number of abortions could be reduced through sex education, birth control, family planning, etc., but pro-lifers vehemently oppose all these efforts.

[nclib]

It really doesn't matter if you feel it should be illegal or not, because the courts will rule in favor of it every time. The 4th Amendment is what will allow abortions to continue, and the fact that we don't begin counting life UNTIL THE DAY SOMEONE IS BORN (birth certificate, 18/21 laws) means that, in the eyes of the law, that's when life begins.

You can continue with your emotional arguments all you'd like, but they won't hold up in court.

Exactly. We consider life at birth on issues unrelated to abortion. Given this, it's hard to take for granted that "life begins at conception". I can't imagine the Census including "unborn persons" in the population counts (even if this was easy to track). And even if I was pro-life, I wouldn't go around telling people I've been to England even though my mother went there when she was pregnant with me.

"When does life begin?" is a complex question that should be decided by pregnant women and doctors rather than politicians.

[Brambila]

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So, does that make it right to kill people in comas, or infants living off of life support? Come on, this logic doesn't work...

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Once again, this is an American law. Slavery was also legal in the United States. The government ruled that slaves were 2/3 human. Did that make it just? No. In China, people celebrated "conception days" instead of "birth days". Does that mean in China the fetus is human, but in America they arn't? huh?

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No it is a fact. The fetus is biologically a human being. It is a homo saepians. It is alive. It is a person. It has it's own DNA. Come on, biogenesis! Humans only make humans! If it's not a human being, what is it?

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Tell me; if the fetus isn't a human being, what is it?

The government is not always correct. There have been many corrupt governments.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Arguing over whether life "begins" at birth or "begins" at conception will always be an argument between whoever is the least wrong.

[Brambila]

No, it is a fact that the fetus is a human being. Even Planned Parenthood believes that the fetus is a human being.

[??????????]

The moment the sperm hits the egg its life. Abortion is murder plain and simple, no way around it. If you don't believe me go to:

www.abortiontv.com

Its disturbing but TRUE. If you think anyone has the right to go into the fetus of a woman and chop a baby up by its arms, legs, and head, and suck it out with a vaccum you are sick.

Why in some states if you kill a pregnant woman do you get charged with double murder? I thought the baby isn't "alive". lol What hypocrites.

[CTguy]

The most recent poll, done by CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP, states that 26% of Americans want abortion always legal, 17% want abortion always illegal, and 55% of americans want abortion illegal in cases of rape, incest, or threat to the mother's life. Meaning, 72% of Americans want abortion illegal in 95% of the cases it's done. No, it's incorrect in saying that 60% of Americans want abortion completely legal. You probably read NBC/Wall Street Poll, which was extremely biased, or asked different questions.

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That is complete rubbish.  55% of the public wants abortion illegal in cases of rape, incest and threat to the mother's life?   Give me a break.  The majority of the public wants abortion legal PERIOD.  

And if you look at where people want it legal, it is usually suburban swing districts that decide which party controls congress.  If your numbers were anything near reality, abortion would have been made illegal a long time ago.  Even the Republican senator from Alaska is pro-choice.  

[??????????]

If you got married and your wife told you she was going to abort your baby whether you like it or not, what would you do? If you told your whole family that she was pregnant made plans and everything and then your wife came and told you she wanted to abort, would you be upset? And if you supported her I bet you wouldn't sit their and watch the murder be done, would you?

You know, I do respect people who think that abortion is murder.  I don't agree with them but I respect their right to hold their opinion.  Just as long as it's not based solely on the bible and any dogmatic religious views.  

We have a separation of Church and State.  I also don't really sympathize with Christians who say "Thou Shalt not Kill" and then are the first to bang the drum to go to war or to execute someone.

This isn't to say that everyone who is against abortion is a religious fanatic.  I do know some people who are against abortion and the death penalty because they are bleeding hearts and feel terrible about the idea of killing babies.  Again, I totally disagree with them, but I empathize with them.  

With that said, if these people really think abortion is murder, why have they, through the years been so focused on stopping interracial marriage, gay marriage, civil rights, integration, immigration, the separation of church and state...  I mean you'd think this issue would take precedence if they believed abortion was murder...  I mean what bigger issue could you have than mass murders...  thousands a weeks...?

I just watched a program on A&E dealing with the civil rights movement...  One of the religious principles the KKK used against integration was that the bible teaches us that different races should remain separate... as one Klan leader put it "You don't see different fish in the sea swimming in the same schools."  It's just amazing that religious people take up wedge issues like that rather than focusing on the real problems in society like the huge poor population in this country (who tend to be the most religious of any group)...  what about helping their fellow christian man rather than creating these wedge issues that divide the country and solve nothing!

[Brambila]

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Read the CNN/GALLUP/USA TODAY Poll... the Wall Street Journal report was extremely biased asking echy questions that are irrelivent, so ignore that one. Gallup is also more prestigious, and CNN is liberal.

[CTguy]

The 55% wants it sometimes legal, whereas you wrote, 55% wanted it legal even in cases of rape, incest, woman's life.  

This data clearly shows that a vast majority of Americans want abortion legal.

[??????????]

So you think out of 300 million Americans. "The vast majority" want it legal? Get real.

[CTguy]

And you think the majority want it illegal, yet it's legal in all 50 states and D.C.?

You get real.  There were probably 100 abortions in the 10 minutes it took you to come up with that.  And that's how it should be.

[??????????]

I will no longer respond to any of your snobbish posts. You are a waste of my time. Go back to hanging out with your Yale buddies.

[CTguy]

I graduated from Yale a while ago and no longer live in the area.  Make fun of Yale all you want, but I'm sure some of my "Yale buddies" will be congressmen before you get promoted to head cow-milker on your dairy farm.

[??????????]

Well at least a dairy farmer is more honest work then a congressman who takes money all day and doesn't do a think for our country. I dont milk cows, but I'm sure you couldn't.

[CTguy]

You mean the way Bush takes oil and drug company money and then cheats Americans?  Yeah I agree.  

And wrong again, I've milked a cow before...  we have farms here in New England...  we just don't have biggots and religious fanatics.

[ElCidGOP]

CTGuy, you wrote that there are 100 abortions in 10 minutes and that is how it should be.  Are you kidding me?  Do you really feel that way?  

I would have to say that the reason abortion is legal in all 50 states and DC is not because a majority prefers it this way or that, but because the judiciary wants it that way.  Put to a referendum (if that was possible) my belief is that abortion would be voted illegal in all cases except rape, health of the mother and incest (all very limited in number of occurences).  Why is abortion so sacred to the left?  What do they get out of it?  

I live in Florida do, and I thank God for that everyday.  We probably have the best governor in the nation in Jeb Bush.  

[CTguy]

Yes I do stand by my post.  I agree whole-heartedly that abortion should be legal and so do many many independents and moderates.  

It is not sacred to me, in fact I don't vote on the issue at all...  Abortion is not at all a concern of mine when I vote... I would vote for a pro-life candidate if I agreed with him on issues I actually do care about.  Though I would prefer a pro-choice candidate.

And as to the referendum... Yes I think there should be a referendum to put this issue to rest...  You're lucky it's not voted on that way because the only people who talk about the issue are pro-life extremists...  If more people were forced to take a stand you wouldn't like the results.

Anyways, I thought you Republicans don't like national referendums...  I mean if we had that then Gore would be President.  

And as to the judiciary...  As we are seeing from the gay marriage debate...  the judiciary doesn't always get their way.  Why dont you guys propose a constitutional amendment banning abortion since you believe it has such huge support among the electorate.

The fact is that Republicans don't want to talk about the abortion issue.  Here in Connecticut alone we have 3 Republican congressmen that are all strongly pro-choice.  If any of them spoke up against abortion they'd lose their seats in a second.  So I wouldn't make this a huge issue if you want Republicans to retain Congress.  You'd find the same thing happening to congressmen in a lot of other states.