Israel moves tanks to Gaza border

[ag]

Another problem with Zionism is even if one accepts the rather ridiculous idea that someone has the right to a land because their ancestors lived there 2000 years ago

Well, the legal justification of Israeli existence is not based on that (at least, if you look at it from a non-religious point of view). Israeli existence is based on a whole bunch of international agreements, starting with the Balfour Declaration in 1918 (?), the establishment of the British Mandate and, of course, eventually, the UN SC and GA resolutions providing for the termination of the Mandate and the establishment of the two states. You could argue all what you want about why those were adopted and whether they were furthering a wise, moral or just policy at the time (I, personally, think they weren't, on any of those counts), but Israeli existence is a done fact, legally as well as practically.

Furthermore, it is not a simple arithmetic: multiplying an injustice by an injustice does not a justice make. Any just solution has to take into account the fate of 5 mln. Israeli Jews, vast majority of whom does not have anymore any real connection to any other country. The fact is, that Europeans (and, lets face it, a lot of the Arabs as well - how many people got kicked out of Iraq alone?) chose to resolve their own "Jewish problem" by sending their ancestors to that very country (by far not everybody came there voluntarily). Now, decades later, destroying the lives of the Israeli-grown generations would do nothing to restore the destroyed lifes of the Palestinians.

The ancient argument has nothing to do with it - for that matter, many, if not most Palestinians can, probably, also claim their origin from the ancient Jews.

[ag]

this still doesn't apply to a good amount if not sizable majority of Jews as they are not actually mostly descended from the ancient Twelve Tribes of Israel, but rather the Kazhars,

BTW, though it is entirely irrelevant, is not likely that most of European (Ashkenazic) Jews have anything to do with the Khazars (though there are some other - smallish - Jewish communities that undeniably do). There is simply a discontinuity between the areas and times of known Khazar settlement and the evidence of Ashkenazic migration. For instance, linguistic evidence in Yiddish clearly indicates a Western migration route through France (Yiddish contains notable borrowings from early medeival French), not Eastern route through what is now Ukraine, while there is no evidence of Turkic borrowings into the language, which would likely be there if the community contained many Khazars. There is also a gap of a few centuries between the known Khazar Jewish communities in what is now Ukraine and establishment of Ashkenazic communities there under Polish control (in fact, therer is evidence that there were no Jews in many of those areas in the inerim), etc.

On the other hand, there were many other documented cases of mass conversion into Judaism - in Asia Minor (Galatia), in Yemen (the origin of most Yemeni Jews), etc. There are also conjectured conversions, which might have more to do with the origins of many of the modern Ashkenazim - in particular, they talk about a probable significant conversion of some Slavic groups (the latest one of these - this one is documented, though smallish - happened as recently as in the 19th century).

Still, the best evidence for the mideastern origin of at least part of the modern Jewish community is, ironically, in the genetic relationships they've established between the Jewish and the Palestinian Arab populations.

Entirely irrelevant sideline, though.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Of course we just can't get rid of Israel now and some sort of peace two state agreement needs to be reached, but the fantaticism of hardcore Zionist nationalists and fundie Zionist loons (who basically take the position that if Israel were to nuke Berlin tommorow as some sort of retroactive retribution for the Holocaust it would be perfectly justifable and nothing Israel does can ever be opposed, I remember jmfcst actually basically saying that to me...

obviously, I said nothing of the sort.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

You said that the US must support Israel regardless of what it does because "it's better to be opposed by non-Zionist nations than a Zionist God"

This is getting absolutely ridiculous by the way, considering that this is all about one soldier. Even if the Israeli army is all you care about, one Israeli soldier has been killed already, so it's already not worth it on a utilitarian scale. Not to mention Israel is just making more abductions and killings of their military even more likely with this...

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

You said that the US must support Israel regardless of what it does because "it's better to be opposed by non-Zionist nations than a Zionist God"

No, I believe what I said was that the US must not give up its general support of Israel.  That doesn't mean that the US has to approve of everything Israel does.  God certainly doesn't approve of everything Israel does.

But know this, every Gentile nation God chose to use to punish Israel, God then turned around and destroyed that same Gentile nation when He restored Israel.

The pattern is repeated over and over again in the bible:  Israel forsakes God, God chooses a Gentile nation to punish Israel, God restores Israel, God destroys the Gentile nation he himself chose to punish Israel with.

In light of that, yes, "it's better to be opposed by non-Zionist nations than a Zionist God"…God chose, called,  and anointed Israel…and whoever takes up arms against God’s anointed will be destroyed because God will eventually restore his relationship with his anointed, because his calling is NEVER based upon MERIT, rather it is based upon GRACE.  And his calling is IRREVOCABLE (i.e. binding, irreversible, final, unalterable, unchangeable, permanent, and immutable).

Therefore, when the bullets start flying, I don't want to be opposing Israel.

---

This is getting absolutely ridiculous by the way, considering that this is all about one soldier. Even if the Israeli army is all you care about, one Israeli soldier has been killed already, so it's already not worth it on a utilitarian scale. Not to mention Israel is just making more abductions and killings of their military even more likely with this...

Using your logic, it would have been better for FDR not to have entered WWII since 200,000 US soldiers died in WWII compared to the 2,400 at Pearl.

[Frodo]

I wonder how many Palestinians are going to end up under tank treads in the name of "freeing" a hostage or two.

I take it from your pro-Palestinian remarks (added to your other known positions) that you're a fan of Pat Buchanan....

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

The palestinieans should be dumped in jordan. End of story.

[??????????]

I wonder how many Palestinians are going to end up under tank treads in the name of "freeing" a hostage or two.

I take it from your pro-Palestinian remarks (added to your other known positions) that you're a fan of Pat Buchanan....

I condemn the aggressive actions of all terrorist states whether that nation be Iran or Israel.