The Kalwejt Foundation for the Promotion of Atlas Hilarity

[RINO Tom]

Jeff Sessions is the next Confederate monument that should be taken down.

That's Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III to you, buddyboy.

FTFY

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Great news.  People keep complaining the administration is supposedly staffed with people who don't know what they're doing.  But Trump and Kobach are real experts when it comes to fraud, so I expect this to be a high quality operation.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Wine is pretty gross. Why would anyone drink it period?

Wine, like most things, is an acquired taste and super good once you're used to it.  It's actually pretty entertaining for a weekend activity to get into the different types of (red) wine.  I think white wine is gross, though.

White wine is too sweet.  Red wine is just plain amazingly though.  Bougie.

You know, I'm an idiot. Like, I don't know much about most things. But I know just a LITTLE about wine, okay? And a blanket statement like "white wine is too sweet" is ridiculous. There are many, many varieties of white wine. Within those varieties, some producers add more or less sugar. I have had some sickly sweet chardonnays in my day, and some delicious dry ones as well. If you want to say something like "Moscato in general is too sweet for me" I will shake your hand and offer to finish your glass for you. But if you say "all white wine is too sweet" I will smack you square in the tit. I won't want to - but I will. Because that is dumb.

Nope, all too sweet.

[Kingpoleon]

This response to that:

^You've got New Hampshire wrong, Bush won it in 2000

[JustinTimeCuber]

but KS-04 still went for Donnie by something like 25 points, not that far from WV. And again, the national Dems ignored it.

Similar margins =/= similar seats. The KS-04 special election was a low turnout election. Energization is significantly more impactful in those kinds of elections. For one, KS-04 trended about 2-4 points republican from 2012 to 2016. In West Virginia the trend was more like 10-20 points(and Clinton lost it by around 40 points). Margin tells you nothing about the personalities of the voters on either side.

Yes, but it shows that it's possible to overcome what's normally a 27 point loss for Dems and turn it into a 7 point loss.

It proves that margins can get weird in more obscure elections. It would mean something if it at least happened under a midterm electorate, but not under a much smaller electorate during a special election when liberals were highly energized by trump and conservatives weren't.

It's a fair point that the situation was odd but it proves that deep red districts (and states) aren't unwinnable.

Just a question, do you think if Joe Manchin stopped taking cash from big business3 and didn't vote in favor of pollution (my biggest problems with him right now) he would be more or less electable?

You can potentially win weird districts in weird situations, but that doesn't mean you can reliably win them in normal situations. On Manchin:

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Yes, not taking donations, thus denying yourself access to very important campaigning tactics that your opponent will still have access to, is very damaging to ones electability. The only people who you'd please are already safe democrats, and many in WV would probably see it as a liberal grandstand. It would hurt royally unless a politician was prolific enough to attract a storm of grassroots donations(eg GA-06 special election, sanders presidential run). It doesn't work for senate races in economically depressed small states, especially when none of the enthusiastic donors like you. It is devastating to be known to the electorate only from attack ads(see Matt Heinz vs Martha McSally).
WV would be particularly difficult but it's possible to do a national campaign for several progressive candidates in certain states, small dollar out-of-state donations are way better than big-money out-of-state donations.

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Do you know anything about West Virginia?
I doubt that they're in favor of contaminated drinking water for their kids...

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Clinton isn't a moderate, especially not in the eyes of the average West Virginian.
but I bet most West Virginians don't think she's left of Sanders.

[Antonio the Sixth]

discuss with maps

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

WV would be particularly difficult but it's possible to do a national campaign for several progressive candidates in certain states, small dollar out-of-state donations are way better than big-money out-of-state donations.

Not with anywhere approaching the effectiveness of taking from larger groups. Most of the people donating to Sanders aren't going to even be paying attention to congress on a serious level. You'll get the leftover cash of a donor base a fraction of the size of the Sanders base. And the heavily invested minority that still donates will probably be more interested in candidates being ideologically/tonally pure enough for them then being a good fit for the state. It's been tried. It hasn't worked.

[/quote]

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That would be a no, then.

West Virginians don't see environmental regulations in the same way that you do. Basically, they see them as the reason coal (and thus West Virginia) died. You are very bad at understanding that other people see political issues differently then you.

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I'm not so sure, especially among the Sanders-Trump-Clinton voters. Plus, I don't think that's quite the "good-bad" dichotomy they use to judge candidates.

[JustinTimeCuber]

1. Big money has been tried and it hasn't worked for the Democrats. Hillary got WAY more money than Trump and still lost. Democrats have lost seats they shouldn't be losing. Take 0 corporate money and maybe people won't think you're a sellout or some establishment shill. Maybe you'll get a bit less money, but then what do you do? Go all over the place talking about how your opponent takes big money donations (as Republicans tend to do), and about how your average donation is twenny seven dollahs.
It's not impossible to get conservatives to think you're in touch with their needs. The country isn't super progressive on every social issue, but when it comes to economics, 60% support medicare for all (with hardly anyone arguing for it), 70% support Medicare as a program, 80% support Social Security, 80% support raising the minimum wage, I think it was around 70% in favor of some or a lot of action on climate change, etc.
People who might consider themselves pro-life or pro-"traditional marriage" whatever that means who are in poverty care more about the economic issues, in general.

2. That's mainly because the establishment press hasn't properly debunked Republican propaganda. Hammer an issue home and people will understand it a lot better.

[Intell]

The idea that WV's and working class people, can't be persuaded to vote for left-wing parties, and left-wingers if there was a candidate that spoke to their concerns and to their ideals is ridiculous.

[MT Treasurer]

President Claire McCaskill does have a nice ring to it...

Do y'all agree?

McCaskill is moderate.

Wait till McCaskill wins in 2018 and runs for president in 2020.

She looks very presidential to me.

"McCaskill fan club" is a phrase that makes me want to vomit, lol.

You endorsed McCaskill and she is moderate

Claire Mccaskill looks so much like an excellent mother also!! Happy mother's day.

Let's help McCaskill win a third election in a that she is not supposed to win!


I AM IN LOVE WITH CLAIRE MCCASKILL.

We can do it!!

Just because you people do not like McCaskill does not mean she is dead on arrival.

I LOVE CLAIRE MCCASKILL.

What exactly do you guys plan to do if McCaskill manages to win?

And no I never said McCaskill was safe so you are need to stop putting words in my mouth.

[NOVA Green]

The idea that WV's and working class people, can't be persuaded to vote for left-wing parties, and left-wingers if there was a candidate that spoke to their concerns and to their ideals is ridiculous.

This....

Not sure if anyone watched the Town Hall with Bernie Sanders in the Heart of Coal Country West Virginia a few months back, but he got a pretty damn good reception in a heavily Trump County....

The "War on Coal" (To use the current Republican phrase) started when the Operators decided to crush the United Mine Workers of America back in the late '80s and early '90s.

This effort was successful.

After the '93 Strike against "Double-Breasting" (Disclosure--- which I helped support when I was living in Ohio at the time), which basically involved Operators opening up Non-Union Mines a few miles down the road from Union Mines, shifting production to Non-Union Mines in Montana and Wyoming as well, almost all of the Union Coal Mines were shut down within a very short period of time within the traditional Coal Belt of America.

The roots of this were in the full-frontal assault that the Reagan Administration waged on the practice known as "Pattern Bargaining".... Most of y'all might be a bit young to remember, or from parts of the country or social backgrounds where this wasn't that evident.

Additionally, instead of Union negotiations directly between employers and employees  within the United States, it turned into a scene where each new facility, needs to go through it's own union organizing drive to achieve collective bargaining.

So sure, the Coal Operators tried to pull the same crap that the large scale Timber companies did in the Pacific Northwest. They pocketed the money during the boom periods, and then when the respective Natural Resource economics go South they pull up the "Radical Environmentalists" and "Regulation Card"....

I have no sympathy for the operators, but a ton of love and understanding for the Coal Miners...

US Taxpayers are now paying the Bailout cost of the United Mineworkers medical funds, because those greedy fatcats pocked the money, and then many of the operators went bankrupt over the past few years, because of not decreased domestic demand for Coal, caused mainly by support for Fracking and Natural Gas by various administrations, but additionally by a dramatically declining international export market to China, which has a two tiered item of both decreasing the insane levels of smog in Urban areas caused by Coal Powered Plants, but additionally the US as a Coal supplier, has long been considered a secondary market, compared to much cheaper Coal from Australia....

So yes---- I think a lot of West Virginians know a lot more about the Coal Industry than most of us on this Forum. However, let's face the facts that both Democratic and Republican Administrations alike, haven't done right for the current and retired Coal Miners in the Coal Belt of Appalachia, that once was the power source behind our Industrial Revolution, the heat for our homes, and a decent paying dangerous Union job that most of us have no idea what it physically entails, not to mention all of those who died of "Black Lung".

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

1. Big money has been tried and it hasn't worked for the Democrats. Hillary got WAY more money than Trump and still lost. Democrats have lost seats they shouldn't be losing. Take 0 corporate money and maybe people won't think you're a sellout or some establishment shill. Maybe you'll get a bit less money, but then what do you do? Go all over the place talking about how your opponent takes big money donations (as Republicans tend to do), and about how your average donation is twenny seven dollahs.

Lol. That doesn't work as well as you think it does. Most voters really don't care. Again, not everyone sees everything in the same way that you do. The attack ads airing all over the state are much more
effective then the target of said ads speaking in random bars or wherever

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Most of those people, while not well off, aren't actually starving. They're often just rich enough to be primarily concerned with social issues. Those who are are often less interested in programs to help the poor and more interested in making themselves well-off enough to not need it.

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Why do I even argue with you...

The idea that WV's and working class people, can't be persuaded to vote for left-wing parties, and left-wingers if there was a candidate that spoke to their concerns and to their ideals is ridiculous.

http://forsetti.tumblr.com/post/153181757500/on-rural-america-understanding-isnt-the-problem

Someone who has a lot more experience with white rural america then you.

[Intell]

1. Big money has been tried and it hasn't worked for the Democrats. Hillary got WAY more money than Trump and still lost. Democrats have lost seats they shouldn't be losing. Take 0 corporate money and maybe people won't think you're a sellout or some establishment shill. Maybe you'll get a bit less money, but then what do you do? Go all over the place talking about how your opponent takes big money donations (as Republicans tend to do), and about how your average donation is twenny seven dollahs.

Lol. That doesn't work as well as you think it does. Most voters really don't care. Again, not everyone sees everything in the same way that you do. The attack ads airing all over the state are much more
effective then the target of said ads speaking in random bars or wherever

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Most of those people, while not well off, aren't actually starving. They're often just rich enough to be primarily concerned with social issues. Those who are are often less interested in programs to help the poor and more interested in making themselves well-off enough to not need it.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Why do I even argue with you...

The idea that WV's and working class people, can't be persuaded to vote for left-wing parties, and left-wingers if there was a candidate that spoke to their concerns and to their ideals is ridiculous.

http://forsetti.tumblr.com/post/153181757500/on-rural-america-understanding-isnt-the-problem

Someone who has a lot more experience with white rural america then you.

Considering that they voted for democrats  in the past, many of them including McGovern and Mondale, I'm not going to take the article as the truth.

 I don't know what your problem is with the democratic party be a party of the under-privileged and the working class is (as a left-wing party should be), unless it's driven by blatant classism.

Also the article was so stupid, I don't know where to begin.

[JustinTimeCuber]

Scarlet, I get that you don't want to lose a seat to a far-right Republican but I think it's worth trying to see if a progressive message can win over some right-leaning voters. I think polls show that we can. It'll be hard but do will be re-electing Manchin in 2024.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

hilarious stuff guys.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

1. Big money has been tried and it hasn't worked for the Democrats. Hillary got WAY more money than Trump and still lost. Democrats have lost seats they shouldn't be losing. Take 0 corporate money and maybe people won't think you're a sellout or some establishment shill. Maybe you'll get a bit less money, but then what do you do? Go all over the place talking about how your opponent takes big money donations (as Republicans tend to do), and about how your average donation is twenny seven dollahs.

Lol. That doesn't work as well as you think it does. Most voters really don't care. Again, not everyone sees everything in the same way that you do. The attack ads airing all over the state are much more
effective then the target of said ads speaking in random bars or wherever

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Most of those people, while not well off, aren't actually starving. They're often just rich enough to be primarily concerned with social issues. Those who are are often less interested in programs to help the poor and more interested in making themselves well-off enough to not need it.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Why do I even argue with you...

The idea that WV's and working class people, can't be persuaded to vote for left-wing parties, and left-wingers if there was a candidate that spoke to their concerns and to their ideals is ridiculous.

http://forsetti.tumblr.com/post/153181757500/on-rural-america-understanding-isnt-the-problem

Someone who has a lot more experience with white rural america then you.

Considering that they voted for democrats  in the past, many of them including McGovern and Mondale, I'm not going to take the article as the truth.

 I don't know what your problem is with the democratic party be a party of the under-privileged and the working class is (as a left-wing party should be), unless it's driven by blatant classism.

Also the article was so stupid, I don't know where to begin.

Bluntly, I doubt  courting the voters who last went for democrats under Bill "end welfare as we know it" Clinton would be good for the democratic party.

[White Trash]

http://forsetti.tumblr.com/post/153181757500/on-rural-america-understanding-isnt-the-problem

Someone who has a lot more experience with white rural america then you.

As someone who has a lot more experience with white rural American than you, I can assure you that that article is bullsh1t.

[Mr. Smith]

Yea, he is a Environmentalist as well, which is very odd for a Republican. He turns off the water if his kids shower more than 5 minutes, as he says it is wasting water.

Yeah, he needs the water for his own shower with the housekeeper.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

http://forsetti.tumblr.com/post/153181757500/on-rural-america-understanding-isnt-the-problem

Someone who has a lot more experience with white rural america then you.

As someone who has a lot more experience with white rural American than you, I can assure you that that article is bullsh1t.

It's hyperbolic, but it gets at the fact that there is a pretty big information bubble in many of these places. It was obviously colored by the experience of its writer (growing up in a white rural area).

http://forsetti.tumblr.com/post/153181757500/on-rural-america-understanding-isnt-the-problem

Someone who has a lot more experience with white rural america then you.

...

Never call yourself a "leftist" ever again.

Leftism isn't about who you think you can convince to vote for you.

[White Trash]

http://forsetti.tumblr.com/post/153181757500/on-rural-america-understanding-isnt-the-problem

Someone who has a lot more experience with white rural america then you.

As someone who has a lot more experience with white rural American than you, I can assure you that that article is bullsh1t.

It's hyperbolic, but it gets at the fact that there is a pretty big information bubble in many of these places. It was obviously colored by the experience of its writer (growing up in a white rural area).

It's beyond hyperbolic, it's plain wrong. Given the lack of specifics I honestly doubt that this person has as much experience with rural America as they claim. As someone who has lived in rural areas almost their whole life I can tell you that what this supposed "article" is describing is pure fantasy.

And this claimed existence of an information bubble is a lie. We use the same internet, watch the same tv, and listen to the same music that your people do. We are not foreigners living in a separate world from the rest of America. Our beliefs are not built on ignorance or a lack of knowing the "good facts". Our views are as built on bigotry as much as yours are.

And I find it ironic that the writer of this piece looks down on us rural troglodytes when as Averroes pointed out in another thread, he writes about us the way Columbus wrote about the "savages" of Hispanola.

[RINO Tom]

http://forsetti.tumblr.com/post/153181757500/on-rural-america-understanding-isnt-the-problem

Someone who has a lot more experience with white rural america then you.

As someone who has a lot more experience with white rural American than you, I can assure you that that article is bullsh1t.

It's hyperbolic, but it gets at the fact that there is a pretty big information bubble in many of these places. It was obviously colored by the experience of its writer (growing up in a white rural area).

http://forsetti.tumblr.com/post/153181757500/on-rural-america-understanding-isnt-the-problem

Someone who has a lot more experience with white rural america then you.

...

Never call yourself a "leftist" ever again.

Leftism isn't about who you think you can convince to vote for you.

But it is, in literally all its forms, about egalitarian ideas and helping the least fortunate/striving for a more equal society.  Ridiculing some of the less fortunate areas of the country and writing them off is antithetical to leftism.

[JustinTimeCuber]

http://forsetti.tumblr.com/post/153181757500/on-rural-america-understanding-isnt-the-problem

Someone who has a lot more experience with white rural america then you.

As someone who has a lot more experience with white rural American than you, I can assure you that that article is bullsh1t.

It's hyperbolic, but it gets at the fact that there is a pretty big information bubble in many of these places. It was obviously colored by the experience of its writer (growing up in a white rural area).

It's beyond hyperbolic, it's plain wrong. Given the lack of specifics I honestly doubt that this person has as much experience with rural America as they claim. As someone who has lived in rural areas almost their whole life I can tell you that what this supposed "article" is describing is pure fantasy.

And this claimed existence of an information bubble is a lie. We use the same internet, watch the same tv, and listen to the same music that your people do. We are not foreigners living in a separate world from the rest of America. Our beliefs are not built on ignorance or a lack of knowing the "good facts". Our views are as built on bigotry as much as yours are.

And I find it ironic that the writer of this piece looks down on us rural troglodytes when as Averroes pointed out in another thread, he writes about us the way Columbus wrote about the "savages" of Hispanola.

Good facts, as opposed to bad facts, I'm sure you mean.

because good facts are the best, and they also define my political views- I'm for good things and against bad things.

[Virginiá]

Can one of you just stop responding, or maybe move this to a different thread? This is the funny posts archive, and now the past 2 pages or so are just back and forth between you twos.

Not every response needs another response, particularly when its just continuing to derail a thread.

[Intell]

1. Big money has been tried and it hasn't worked for the Democrats. Hillary got WAY more money than Trump and still lost. Democrats have lost seats they shouldn't be losing. Take 0 corporate money and maybe people won't think you're a sellout or some establishment shill. Maybe you'll get a bit less money, but then what do you do? Go all over the place talking about how your opponent takes big money donations (as Republicans tend to do), and about how your average donation is twenny seven dollahs.

Lol. That doesn't work as well as you think it does. Most voters really don't care. Again, not everyone sees everything in the same way that you do. The attack ads airing all over the state are much more
effective then the target of said ads speaking in random bars or wherever

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Most of those people, while not well off, aren't actually starving. They're often just rich enough to be primarily concerned with social issues. Those who are are often less interested in programs to help the poor and more interested in making themselves well-off enough to not need it.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Why do I even argue with you...

The idea that WV's and working class people, can't be persuaded to vote for left-wing parties, and left-wingers if there was a candidate that spoke to their concerns and to their ideals is ridiculous.

http://forsetti.tumblr.com/post/153181757500/on-rural-america-understanding-isnt-the-problem

Someone who has a lot more experience with white rural america then you.

Considering that they voted for democrats  in the past, many of them including McGovern and Mondale, I'm not going to take the article as the truth.

 I don't know what your problem is with the democratic party be a party of the under-privileged and the working class is (as a left-wing party should be), unless it's driven by blatant classism.

Also the article was so stupid, I don't know where to begin.

Bluntly, I doubt  courting the voters who last went for democrats under Bill "end welfare as we know it" Clinton would be good for the democratic party.

They went to Clinton last, yes, but Clinton and his third-way policies merged in with social liberalism, was the reason of the death of the democratic party in these areas.

In anyway, many working class areas in WV, especially strong coal mining ones stayed democratic until 08' and before someone cries RASCISM against Obama as the swing was as sharp as the swing against Kerry.

Working Class areas in coal mining and other working class areas in eastern PA, went democratic until the last election, as did many working class areas across the nation.

Whatever anyone wants to attack the working class for voting against their interests, they have historically in every election been more democratic than the more white middle/upper-class people of their state/county.

Being a leftist is being an egalitarian for all groups of society, that all working class people should vote for a left-wing party, as you are anti-egalitarian to a group in society, you forfeit your right to be called a leftist.

[kcguy]

hilarious stuff guys.