Constitutional Amendment (Passed)

[Cranberry]

Nay

I support the provision that the President can not suspend former pardons. But I oppose the change that he can still pardon himself.

[Blair]

Nay, we can't let a President pardon himself

[TNF]

Nay

The President should not have a get out of jail free card for himself.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

NAY

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Aye

I believe a pardon is a pardon. The reason the president has the power to pardon individuals is because he or she is supposed to be the arbiter of the will of the people. In other words, the electorate entrusts that power to the president. If they entrust someone to the office of the presidency who commits a crime and pardons him or herself, well... in a way, that was the people's will. The pardon is an exceptional power in anyone's hands, so having the ability to pardon oneself or not is kind of moot. If a "bad person" gets into the position of having the power to grant a pardon, there's a moral quandry there whether the person has the authority to pardon Joe Blow, Jane McLean, or even anyone... including him or herself. Creating this exception is picking at something that doesn't really matter.

[windjammer]

The result of the vote:
Aye (2): Lief, Talleyrand,
Nay (6): Windjammer, Cris, Polnut, TNF, Cranberry, Blair
Non voting (1): Hagrid (too late)


This amendment has failed to be adopted.

[Senator Cris]

I'd like to present this amendment:

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I support the idea of preventing a President to repeal prior pardons or reprieves but we should keep the part that ensure that the President could not pardon himself.

[windjammer]

Senators have 36 hours to object.

[Lief 🗽]

I object.

[windjammer]

A vote is now open, please vote AYE, NAY or Abstain.

[windjammer]

Aye. I don't understand the debate with that?

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Aye

A pardon is a pardon, suffering the consequences of who the people put in the White House, sacred power, etc., etc.

[TNF]

Abstain

The language is outdated and may prove problematic.

[bore]

For the record I alerted Cris to the him/them thing and he said that that was a mistake and he was happy to correct it in the next amendment.

[Senator Cris]

Aye

For the record I alerted Cris to the him/them thing and he said that that was a mistake and he was happy to correct it in the next amendment.

Yes. We'll change it.

[Cranberry]

What's the problem with the language here?

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Yes, my "aye" was in support of the "no revoking pardons" thing. We can and should make this amendment more gender neutral at the first chance once we're done here.

[Talleyrand]

ABSTAIN

Still reluctant about this, but it's not important enough to be the cross for any Senator to die on.

[Cranberry]

Ah, it's the gender neutral thing.

NAY then, though only because of the "him"

[Senator Cris]

Ah, it's the gender neutral thing.

NAY then, though only because of the "him"

It will be changed in the next amendment. So if you are supporting the entire amendement, why are you voting Nay?

[DemPGH]

Yeah, I support, and as to him- herself, I think that can be easily corrected with the next amendment.

Yes.

[Cranberry]

Ah, it's the gender neutral thing.

NAY then, though only because of the "him"

It will be changed in the next amendment. So if you are supporting the entire amendement, why are you voting Nay?

I'll be voting Aye then.
But as it not really matters - I'll change my vote to AYE

[windjammer]

This has enough votes to pass. I let 24 hours for the senators who haven't voted yet to vote.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

AYE

[Blair]

Abstain due to gender wording, change it and I'll vote in favour