Israel responds to new Palestinian gov. with settlement expansions

[politicus]

I think even the Zionists realize that, but like the Palestinians, they too have essentially given up on the idea that a stable two-state solution is possible. 

I think most people realize that the only stable solution is a one state solution, with the two people living together, without apartheid. It's the most utopic but it's the only real stable solution... We will see in 50 years.

That would make the whole idea of Israel pointless and with the higher Palestinian birthrate it would quickly lead to an Arab majority.

[politicus]

I think even the Zionists realize that, but like the Palestinians, they too have essentially given up on the idea that a stable two-state solution is possible.  

I think most people realize that the only stable solution is a one state solution, with the two people living together, without apartheid. It's the most utopic but it's the only real stable solution... We will see in 50 years.

That would make the whole idea of Israel pointless and with the higher Palestinian birthrate it would quickly lead to an Arab majority.

This is true but it in no way invalidates anything swl said.

It invalidates the part about such a state being stable.

[politicus]

How is a one state solution less stable than the current situation?

I didn't say it was less stable, only that it wouldn't be stable. You get a lot of conflict over the control of this state. Its only stable if the Jews give up and leave or are forced out. Basically a one state solution is the same as a Palestinian win in the long run. Its not a neutral solution.

To bgwah: Most desirable solution from a pro-Israeli POV is: Jordan is taken over by the Palestinian majority and united with most of the West Bank. The new state then recognizes Jerusalem as Israeli territory, but gets sovereignty over Islamic holy places.

But this would require the Palestinians to accept that they lost in 1948 and 1967 and can never regain the lost territory, something thats hard to reconcile with Arab mentality.

[politicus]

WB: You are mixing a whole lot of things in your answer including a lot of normative perspectives. My reply was simply to bgwahs question of what "supporters of the Israeli right wing" (which I interpreted as Western Zionists) would like, not what would be "fair".

So as close to a Greater Israel solution as possible, which would be a partition of the West Bank with East Jerusalem and the settlements closest to Israel being incorporated and the rest united with Jordan. I never claimed this would be stable, but with transfer of population it would at least remove the Israeli occupation of Palestinian inhabited territory.

Whether you - or the Jordanians - like it or not Jordan is a majority Palestinian country.

[politicus]

Whether you - or the Jordanians - like it or not Jordan is a majority Palestinian country.

That hasn't stopped the Jordanian minority from carrying on as though the Palestinians living in Jordan simply don't exist, and in many cases refuse to even confer citizenship on them because they cling to the deluded notion that a child who was born in Jordan and has known no other country is going to be perfectly happy being shipped off to Israel or Palestine because of something that happened in his grandparents' time.

Israel's right wing clings to a very myopic perception of a monolithic Arab people that is universally intent on destroying Israel and all Jews at all cost because they obviously have nothing better to do with their time. To be "an Arab" means nothing more than to speak the Arabic language, in the same way that Hispanic peoples are united by Spanish and Lusitanic peoples are united by Portuguese. Arabs do not share a common religion (some are Muslim, some are Christian, some are even Jewish); they don't share a common race or ethnicity (it's hard to mistake a blonde-haired, blue-eyed Lebanese for a brown-skinned, kinky-haired Somali). Telling a Palestinian to go live in "one of the other Arab countries" is about as logical as if the United States occupied part of Mexico and told the Mexicans living there that they shouldn't have any problem going to live in Peru or Spain.

This is a weird answer since the tone seems to imply its some kind of counterargument to mine, but the second part is stating a lot of obvious facts that's irrelevant to my post.

The point about Jordan is that at some point it will have to be taken over by Palestinians - they are the majority and cant be kept down forever.

This will be a good thing for Israeli-Palestinian relations since it opens up the option of the West Bank being divided with about 80% being incorporated into a united Jordan-West Bank state, which could make use of a functioning state apparatus. And it makes the Jerusalem question more manageable since it doesn't have to be the capital of a Palestinian state.

Regarding Palestinian refugees in Arabic countries, despite some cultural differences they are close to the population in neighbouring countries and could be integrated into their population if the necessary political will was present. Any long term solution means integrating Palestinians in the host countries. Its unlikely to happen, but its still one of the necessary conditions for peace.

NB: Somalis are not Arabs.