PA 13

[TeePee4Prez]

Hey Phil, if anyone's being immature taking stuff from this forum and posting it on their website with names, it's you.  KP, you crossed the line here pal!  See replies #165 and 187 and how they correlate to their site.  Here's the site:

http://www.septars.com/DemocraticLunacy.html

Oh right because I mean the site is only pointing out what he said.

YOU USED HIS ACTUAL NAME!!! THAT'S WRONG!!  You're accusing Demoteen of being out of line earlier, now you did somethign drastically worse.

[TeePee4Prez]

These were FORUM posts.  You are out of line!

[TeePee4Prez]

The whole SEPTARS website is trollish.  Derrr, I pro-life, pro-military, low-taxes, pro-family derrrr.  It seems like no one there has any complex thought process whatsoever.  I would think your adult advisors would be a little more informative.  I love the one quote from one of your members (will not say their name unlike you) "I'm here to try to get liberal American to think the way they should think-- Conservative."  Dude, you can't eb any more trollish.  It seems Mark knows what he's doing.

[TeePee4Prez]

The whole SEPTARS website is trollish.  Derrr, I pro-life, pro-military, low-taxes, pro-family derrrr.  It seems like no one there has any complex thought process whatsoever.  I would think your adult advisors would be a little more informative.  I love the one quote from one of your members (will not say their name unlike you) "I'm here to try to get liberal American to think the way they should think-- Conservative."  Dude, you can't eb any more trollish.  It seems Mark knows what he's doing.

We're trollish? We're a private club. Are we trollish against ourselves? You really make no sense. I mean of course you're going to disagree with what we say. Atleast we can put together a strong club unlike DemoTroll who hasn't a clue. That's why he had to spy on the Teenage Republicans to find out how to run an organization.

Smart young guy isn' t he !

[TeePee4Prez]

Wow, you guys are pretty intense.  I too was more pro-life, but then I realized a lot of things in society both of you have yet to.  I am not knocking either of your intelligence, I just see things a lot differently having been through college.  Mark, as I have said at the meeting, there are a LOT of factors that go into one having an abortion.  On a case by case basis, I can not judge what a person has to go through being pregnant or the ordeals of parenting.  I do not think a woman wants to go through an abortion, but they may have no other choice.  Despite the fact that I am personally against abortion, I can not judge another person's choices or situations for whatever reason.  It has been very hard for me lately with matters of my Catholic faith and how they prioritze certain issues, but this is where I stand.    

I support Allyson Schwartz 100% for this election even though I have a lot of quirks regarding the Section 8 progam.  I support her measures for universal health care, energy independence, small business development, and rolling back some of Bush's boneheaded polcies (i.e. tax cuts for the wealthy, etc.).  Mark, you should too!  I am not asking you to switch your postion on abortion, but Allyson Schwartz is a far better, more principled candidate.

[TeePee4Prez]

You are entitled to your opinion. I do not attack for supporting melissa. I am leaving this forum as well tonight because PA 13 really doesnt concern me considering I live in PA 8 and most of my club does, but being the chairman of the Philadelphia Teenage Democrats and this being such a close race known across the country, I had to support a candidate and I feel I supported the right candidate.

Don't leave the forum.  There are other good threads in here with a lot of good discussion.  I congratulate you on your decision.  Leave most of the thearguing on here to me and KeystonePhil for it si our district, but feel free to chime in!

[TeePee4Prez]

Melissa Brown is going to win this election with no ifs and or buts.

And you know this because?  Look, she supports Bush to a tee except on some social issues.  I want a representative, not a lackey!  Whyare you a Democrat if you're supporting Brown.  Just curious.

[TeePee4Prez]

I am against partial birth abortion as well (with exceptions), but I do not mind Allyson Schwartz's establishing abortion clinics.  Hey, some women need it.  I went to Catholic school as well, but I do not have a tunnel dug from my house to Cardinal Rigali's residence either.  Allyson Schwartz is the better candidate overall.  Melissa Brown supports tax cuts for the wealthy, strangling patients from suing their doctors when they screw up, and giving Bush a blank check for Iraq.  I'll admit I gave her a second look after Joe Torsella lost considering the fact she lit a fire under the PHA with regards to the mismangement of Section 8.  All things considered I am voting for Allyson Schwartz in the Fall and there is no turning back!    

[TeePee4Prez]

I was out there hard for Joe Torsella this past April. After he loss I as well went down and said to myself Melissa is the better candidate because of Her stance on section 8 housing. My chairman emphasizes that there hasnt been no new applicants since 2002. I know there hasnt been no new applicants since 2002, but there was a section 8 house on my block and the people that lived in there both past away but that is still a section 8 house so therefore other section 8 people can move in therefore I got African Americans who dont work that moved on my block. Section 8 was established for elders who cant work so it gives them  a break with prescription drugs.Mayor Street and his cronies are giving it to the wrong people and that is why Melissa Emphasizes REFORM section 8 housing not get rid of section 8 so the people that really need it get it.

Let me clarify a few things here without being condescending..

1.  Joe Hoeffel and Jonathan Saidel have also hit on the issue of Section 8 pretty hard.  Theya re the ones who got the PHA mortatorium on Section 8 housing in Northeast Philadelphia.  Both of whom are endorsing Allyson Schwartz this election.  I really do no think Allyson Schwartz is going to buy into Street cronyism.  She would be foolish if she does and I very much doubt it.  

2.  Yes there are African Americans on Section 8, but there are also lazy redneck whites on it as well.  I feel our media does not like to show it, but at the K&A welfare office, there are many whites collecting welfare and receiving Section 8 benefits as well.  I feel Melissa Brown brought up a very good issue, but I feel she overemphasized race.    Please keep race out of discussions for future reference.

3. As I have said before, Allyson Schwartz fits me MUCH better than Melissa Brown though I share many of your concerns.  I too was a Joe Torsella supporter, but Melissa Brown is seemingly going to be a rubber stamp to Bush's polcies.  This does not sit too well with me.

I just want to ask you.. why are you a Democrat?  I respect your opposition to abortion and the mismanagement of Section 8, which I feel strongly about as well, but there are greater issues here that should not be trumped for this election.  If Melissa Brown were running for say City Council, my consideration would increase drastically for she would provide a hefty counterbalance to the far-left City Hall.  However, you must realize this is CONGRESS!!  The GOP has the White House and both the House and Senate.  Why is Section 8 not reformed?  Joe Hoeffel has fought for it and I'm sure others have in other cities.          

[TeePee4Prez]

When it comes to malpractice suits and prescription drugs Melissa is the best candidate because she was a doctor and she knows how to face these issues. Allyson Schwartz will not since in senate she voted no on SB 9. Melissa knows we have a struggling school district and wants to better it. I believe in Melissa although you do not thats fine,  but melissa is the better candidate in this race.

Melissa Brown with regards to Section 8 was sleazy.  She practically painted Joe Hoeffel as inventing it with Al Sharpton's endorsement.  She is ridiculous, a snake, and makes false accusations.  She does not deserve to be my Congresswoman!

With regards to malpractice suits, she wants to limit suits SEVERELY.  She is not attacking the REAL source of the problem- THE INUSRANCE COMPANIES.  They are to blame for increasing premiums because of poor investments in the stock market, NOT PATIENT LAWSUITS.  Sens. Tommy Tomlinson and Stew Greenleaf, also Republicans, voted with Schwartz on SB 9.  

In my judgment, Melissa Brown is the wrong choice.  She has too often made baseless and false accusations.   Section 8 is a problem KILLING the Northeast and I agree strongly on that issue having come from lower Northeast Philadelphia myself.  I dreaded seeing neighborhoods my fahter grew up in, others in between such as Juniata, and eventually mine and more decay because of the gross mismanagement of Section 8.  Joe Hoeffel and Jon Saidel ahve worked very hard to stop the expansion of Section 8 until the problems are fixed.  This is not to say problems can't be fixed at the federal level.  The PHA can better manage what anyone can do in COngress.        

If you can counter any of my arguments with fact and analysis, I'd like to hear it.  

[TeePee4Prez]

You know what will make Melissa win is all the dems who will vote for her in november.

You have yet to counter any of my arguments.  I would still like to hear them.

[TeePee4Prez]

Voting for a HOUSE candidate based on their position on abortion is stupid. It will make ZERO difference on abortion the issue between two pro-choice HOUSE candidates. The only difference it will make is what the candidate will do for the district. The Supreme Court, and Senate will decide about abortion.

What do you think I've been trying to tell these guys all along.  The same goes for Section 8 housing in this case.  

[TeePee4Prez]

Cook and Sabato still have it lean Democratic.  Hoeffel STILL won in NE Philly in 2002 and he wasn't the incumbent here since Borski got booted.  Melissa Brown is not Arlen Specter.  I do not understand why any prominent NE Dems are supporting Brown.  Mike McGeehan isn't.  Joe Torsella (born and raised here) isn't.  Ellen Bard in Montco isn't.  She is a fraud and will lose.

[TeePee4Prez]

I NEVER thought Allyson Schwartz would win the Dem nomination either, but hey what do you or I know?  Everyone knows Melissa Brown is using fear tactics to win an election.  She has never held political office and is full of sh!t.

[TeePee4Prez]

BUT Allyson Schwartz has and she will prevail in November when Bush tanks.  Melissa Brown has tied herself to him and will sink with him as far as I'm concerned.

[TeePee4Prez]

You also have to realize Bush would have handily won here as well in 2002.  You are forgetting people do not like Bush's economy or war which Brown is fully on board with when it comes to Bush.  That got me from Torsella to tossup to Schwartz.

[TeePee4Prez]

Handzus your a disgrace. Rendell was one of the worst mayors in Philadelphia history. Allyson Schwartz held a residence in Mount Airy most of her life until PA 13 opened up she got a condo in Jenkintown. Please get Rendels picture and Melissa's off of your messages. I am a melissa supporter and most of the members are except for the chairman of the club I  belong to. The members in our club that are 18 and just got registered to vote are also voting melissa you got it all wrong melissa will do much more for the Democrats and the republicans in the district. I am so sick of Section 8 I am glad melissa is trying to reform it. I am also glad we have a doctor and an educator running in this district.

Awww, I'm sorry!  News flash- I've been in the working world a little longer than you have and know much more about macroeconomics than you.  Your're centrist views here are welcome, but how dare you call me a disgrace.  You and Keystone Phil seem to have little clue as to how Section 8 actually works.  If what you are saying is true, you have a lot to learn.  Unlike you I want a representative, not a Bush lackey full of hot air then turns around and denies it.  I know BS when I see it and IMO, Melissa Brown is BS!  Btw, the pictures stay!

Demoteen, please tell this character not to be so cocky at our meetings if he were to show up.  I applaud you for having such independent and complex thought at such a young age.  

[TeePee4Prez]

Schwartz has represented parts of the Northeast at various times.  She is somewhat known.  To say she's unknown is false.  I know what Brown's positions are and I don't generally like them.  From reading letters in the Northeast Times there are tohers that share my opinion.  Sorry dude, Dem hold.  As consolation you guys will also hold PA-8 and 15.  

[TeePee4Prez]

News for those who have been staying tuned....  The Philadelphia FOP has endorsed Melissa Brown.  Ok KeystonePhil, she got another union.  BIG DEAL! Allyson Schwartz is still CRUSHING Brown in that department.  The catfight has yet to begin.  I'm disappointed in the union for not thinking twice about the issues.  It must seem they could care less about other workers and their only worried about their own hides here.  They get the best benefits and are only concerned about well???  Who knows?  Schwartz has a HUGE machine behind her and the Armageddon has yet to begin.  I have confidence Schwartz will prevail in the Fall.      

[TeePee4Prez]

To timsadem (more applies to you) and KeystonePhil:

Have both of you read the positions of both candidates running for Congress.  I know I have and I found Allyson Schwartz is far more clear, concise, and detailed about her stances and what she plans on doing.  I just got done finishing a 5 page report on what Allyson Schwartz plans on doing about freeing our dependence from foreign oil.  Allyson Schwartz has plan to raise fuel efficincy standards and appropritate tax credits where applicable in concise detail.  She also mentions what she has accomplished as a State Senator.  Please note that finding alternative energy soucres plays a key role in our national security.  

I have also read Melissa Brown's.  What are they?  She doesn't want to offend her buddies now does she?  I did mention in a previous post that Melissa Brown did indeed receive a hefty endorsement from the Philadelphia FOP.  Now that were on the subject of political contributors, here they are.  The source is straight from Melissa Brown's website:


Senator Rick Santorum, Pennsylvania:

Front and center.  Wow, Pricky Boy really says what he believes in "family values" in endorsing another pro-choice candidate. He is also a great supporter of workers' rights... NOT!  Voted to cut overtime pay, but hey the Philly police need not worry.  If their OT was voted out by a candidate a President endorsed, surely he would have a brick hurled through his window!  He also supported Jack Ryan a guy that loves to have sex in public clubs.

Congressman Dennis Hastert, U.S. House Speaker

Another winner.  Wants to eliminate the IRS in favor of a Value-added tax or a national sales tax.  IRS elimination would put a lot of Northeast Philadelphians out of work one way or another.  


Congresswoman Deborah Pryce, House Republican Conference Chair

Congressman Eric Cantor, House Chief Deputy Whip

Congressman Roy Blunt, House Majority Whip

Congressman Thomas Reynolds, Chairman, National Republican Congressional Committee

Congressman Tom Davis, Chairman, House Government Reform Committee

Congressman Bill Thomas, Chairman, House Ways & Means Committee

Congresswoman Kay Granger, House Appropriations Committee

Congresswoman Candice Miller, House Armed Services Committee

Congressman Phil English, PA-3

Congressman Jim Greenwood, PA-8

Congresswoman Melissa Hart, PA-4

If Rick Santorum were a woman, this would be it!

Congressman John Peterson, PA-5

Congressman Don Sherwood, PA-10

Congressman Pat Toomey, PA-15

Another guy that sticks to his beliefs. only when it benefits him!!

Former Congresswoman Tillie Fowler, FL-4

Former Congresswoman Susan Molinari, NY-13

Republican National Committeeman Robert Asher

A convicted felon.  Gee and why did the Philly FOP endorse Melissa Brown?  Something must be up or there was some kind of payoff!  Time will tell.

Republican National Committeewoman Christine Toretti-Olsen    

[TeePee4Prez]

Schwartz is (IMO) the favourite to win PA-13... it's worth remembering that Montgomery county-based Hoeffel still beat Brown in the NE Philly part of PA-13 (despite the merger of two districts the results were very similer in both halves of the district) and that that part of PA-13 was a de facto open seat.

However, 1) Schwartz is not as well known as Brown. 2) Brown is well known and popular in this area. 3) Schwartz is further left than Joe Hoeffel and the reason why Hoeffel was re-elected was because he can portray himself as a moderate (with his voting record, I have no idea how anyone could believe he's a moderate. After this Senate race, maybe the voters statewide will see just how liberal he is.) Schwartz will have a very hard time making herself out to be a moderate.

Brown is going to win this race. PA13 - GOP pickup.

Hoeffel didn't win because he was seen as a moderate... PA-13 isn't exactly Texas ya know...

Economy is sour here and Melissa Brown thinks it's so rosy and vibrant and the Bush tax cuts were attributable to it.  For having an MBA from St. Joseph's which is a fairly prestigious business school, her positions on economic issues from her website were pathetic.  She maybe had a paragraph with NO full position paper.

http://www.melissabrownforcongress.com  

[TeePee4Prez]

I'm sorry Mr. KeystoneGOPTroll did I hit a nerve?  I actually provide a basis for my reasoning besides listening to the brainwashing of a Catholic high school or that neighbor or relative that sounds like Archie Bunker which you seem too eager to regurgitate on the Forum in different terms.    

[TeePee4Prez]

I'm sorry Mr. KeystoneGOPTroll did I hit a nerve?  

Ha...I'm the troll? Last time I checked I don't flip out like you. I mean seriously, what was your EXCELLENT argument saying that if Rick Santorum was a woman, Hart would be it. What was the reasoning there?

Don't accuse me of being brainwashed, either. I form my own opinions and just because you are angry that a conservative like myself resides in NE Philly doesn't mean that conservative is "brainwashed."

The Melissa Hart comment was merely an auxiliary talking point.  She is from the same part of PA, has almost carbon copy views both economically and politically, about the same age, and really don't look that much different.  If you haven't noticed, the brunt of my argument were the first two schmucks that are endorsing Brown.  You have not at any point given me a good argument as to why I should vote for Melissa Brown.  Furthermore, considering some of the @ssholes listed above, I stand by Allyson Schwartz even more now than ever!  Please Keystone, I'm sorry Melissa Brown is worthless after Section 8 as far as I'm concerned.  You are defending a loser that has more complex thoughts about Section 8 than she does taxes, the economy, or alternative energy sources combined!  As much as I would like to see the program fixed, I personally think it's pathetic she can not articulate the issues on a website.  Melissa Brown's accompishments show more endorsements than issues.

I hate to bust your balls here, but your arguments have been very weak in Melissa Brown's defense.  Your thoughts regarding these issues are a mere amalgamam of crap from Archie Bunker-like neighbors and the brainwashings of conservative, sometimes religious zealot, Catholic high school teachers, and maybe some poorly educated white men writing articles in the Northeast Times.  I have heard every argument in Melissa Brown's defense many of times before I even entered this forum.  You have not said anything new here.  Any grown adult that trumps the Section 8 issue above all else has an Archie Bunker mentality.. I'm sorry, but I'm telling the truth!  Considering all of this issues that are facing us, I can not afford to be so narrow minded.  As for the Catholic high school teachers, many of them only see two things.. right and wrong.  You and a lot of people in Northeast Philadelphia, parts of my own family included, have no idea about WHY a person needs an abortion.  The people that design the tenets of the Catholic faith haven't a clue to what American society is like.  I have at Catholic school come across very socially conservativve, yet very book-educated Oblates of St. Francis of DeSales.  The problem is many are over the age of 60 and only see things in black and white and what things were.  These people have never had children to show them other ways of thinking.            

[TeePee4Prez]

I share many of the concerns Demoteen04 just stated on here.  Considering the pitfalls of the Bush Administration, I do not feel any candidate echoing them regardless of their views on Section 8 housing can sway my vote.  I live in PA-13 adn I am voting for Allyson Schwartz.  Prescription drugs need to be more affordable for ALL.  The growth of Section 8 housing has been null since 2002 and  housing prices are skyrocketing in many places.  I fully understand the program has ruined once good neighborhoods such as Frankford, Juniata, Feltonville, Olney, and Harrowgate sour, but there is little if anything Brown can do about it.  Most of what Melissa Brown will provide would be anohter vote for the DeLay-Hastert agenda.  Allyson Schwartz has EXPERIENCE in the political process.  

[TeePee4Prez]

Oh please tell me Handzus, why does someone NEED an abortion? I think I know why...they get willingly get pregnant and have no way out so they think ENDING AN INNOCENT LIFE because they didn't want to get pregnant is the way out. Give it a rest, Handzus.

And I have to point out something that really amuses me...you say you want reform in Section 8 but you are supporting a candidate who won't even address the issue! Do you think Schwartz will mention Section 8 during the campaign? Unless asked about it during a debate, I HIGHLY doubt she'll ever mention it.

Oh and please move past your cliches about poorly educated white men that write to the NE Times and the Archie Bunker religious zealots that you always talk about. Why is it that the conservatives always "brainwash" people? I think you don't want to believe that there are conservatives here, Handzus and we aren't brainwashed. I find that to be an excuse whenever I talk to a liberal. They always think that a conservative my age didn't reach the conclusion to be a conservative on my own. Well let me make it known to you Handzus and anyone else, I AM A CONSERVATIVE AND I CHOSE TO BE A CONSERVATIVE. NO ONE made that decision for me.

Also, if you think Brown's only issue is Section 8 you really don't know the candidate. Medical malpractice and tort reform are other big issues she is focusing on. What's Schwartz's message? Is it something like.. I'm not a Republican. I don't support the Bush adminstration. Wow! That's a GREAT platform! Sure. Go to her site and you'll see she has a poll about Cheney being VP. Where is the focus on the ISSUES, Handzus?

I was about to respond to this earlier today, but our power got cut off.  I am going to first answer WHY a woman needs an abortion.  First and foremost, it could be because of the life of the mother or rape, which if I'm not mistaken you agree with me on.  However, I will emphasize where we DON"T agree.  I can not fully evaluate, as a rational human being, the motive for why a woman needs an abortion for I am not a woman.  I would like to keep that option open for whatever reason a woman chooses.  As for the argument of economic inconveniece, yes it holds water.  I'll start by saying our sex drive fully comes into play at about age 17 or 18.  In the post-WWII era, people dated their high school sweetheart then married at ages such as 18, 19 , or 20.  Most were lucky to even have a HS diploma and worked in a neighborhood factory.  This is coupled with the fact that real estate values were much cheaper and less education was needed to afford necessities.  Unfortunatuely today's economy requires more education and puts students in massive debts they're paying until age 35 in some cases.  This is a major hindurance to having the capabilty to raise a family.  Meanwhile between goign to college and about age 30 when you can finally afford to get married, you will want to have sex.  The "self-control" argument holds no water with me.  A wealthier person can easily affrod to get married at an earlier age... I FREAKING CAN'T!!  Why should a poorer person be denied the pleasure of sex because they can ill afford the consequences thereafter?  In many pre-martial pregnancies, it is better for both mother and baby to terminate a preganancy.  This can not be an easy thing for the mother, but it should be her decision as to whether it is in her best interest. Prime examples include a girl finishing high school or college.  If a girl's education is interrupted, this severly hinders her ability to raise the child and if her partner also has to drop out, potential earnings to better care for the child severely decrease.  This is not an individual decision I feel I can make.

I know the Roman Catholic tenets mean well on this matter, but the Republican party clearly wants to keep the poor.. poor in this case.  The GOP likes to use issues such as this to say "Haha, you got pregnant now you're poor.. boo-hiss for your moral failing and you should have to live with that scar forever."  They LOVE people that have large families becasue it is statistically proven that the educational opportunuites and well-being of childrem DRAMATICALLY decrease after 3 kids.  The GOP loves the fact that kids are less likely to go to college under these cirumstances to they can either be their peons or join the army as the only way out.