New religions and denominations

[Beet]

Is it possible for a new 'religion' on the scale of Islam to arise today?

[justfollowingtheelections]

scientology is a rather new religion and it's quite big (and getting bigger)

Another "new" religion (more like a sect) than I can think of off the top of my head is the Supreme Master religion which has about 20,000 followers worldwide.

[John Dibble]

for something to get to the scale of Islam would take a long while. There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, and most of that isn't converts but rather people born into the faith.

There are new religions that are growing and either will or already have broken the one million follower mark. The Rastafari movement and Wicca are both good examples of 20th century religions that are growing.

scientology is a rather new religion and it's quite big (and getting bigger)

Actually indicators point to that being false. Scientology is losing members.

Their claims of having ten million members is quite blatantly false, as they count anyone who has ever taken even one course as a member even if they've never again had anything to do with the organization. The actual number is closer to something around 25,000 in the US, and maybe around 40,000 active members worldwide. They try to present the illusion of growth by building new 'orgs' (their version of a church) and renovating old ones. The reality is that they are losing members. It's hard for oppressive cults to keep the lid on things in this information age.

[DemPGH]

Great question, and is one that will warrant some consideration. My impulse is to say that 1) I hope not, and 2) I don't think so. That's because I think religion and mythology used to function as a knowledge system: it's what people knew, it counted as knowledge. It was also a way to organize society, as in "God wants you to do this or that." Human beings were ready and eager to learn how everything worked (to include workable government!) and where everything came from, but they neither had that knowledge nor any way to get it because they hadn't made enough progression. So they made up mythologies that seemed right, and it marked that particular point in human evolution when people were advanced enough to start figuring things out but as yet couldn't.

Religion now I think is largely social: it's about how a community feels about something, like their place in the world. It's not a monolithic knowledge system. People are taught how things work, in other words, which I think is a real barrier to the chances of some religion springing up and sweeping everyone away. And this is another reason why education is important: people need to care how things work.

Certainly attitudes and philosophical outlooks can become widespread dominant, but I think that's a different question.

[angus]

Is it possible for a new 'religion' on the scale of Islam to arise today?

sure, why not?  Of course it took 1300 years for Islam to actually reach the scale, but any of the emergent religions could potentially reach that scale.  My guess is that some new techno-religion, one that embraces the demons and ghosts of the high-pressure, fast-paced life we lead and one that deals effectively with existential boredom, will catch on nicely.  I know of no such religion currently, but whoever invents it may well go down in the history books.

All hail Beet of Atlasia, founder of Beetism, in which depression is a virtue and optimism a form of mental masturbation, to be countered with long reflections on the awareness of poverty and greed.

[Joe Biden 2020]

Islam is at least 3,800-4,000 years old.  Abraham's son Ishmael, who was the daughter of an Egyptian maid of Abraham and Sarah who slept with Abraham was the father of Islam.  He is the older half brother of Isaac, the man through whom Judaism and, later, Christianity would come.  Ishmael always disliked Isaac and things have not changed today as Islam as a whole dislikes Jews and Christians.  (I'm not talking about the moderate Muslims who are tolerable to all three religions).  So for another religion to spring up on the level of Islam?  It could, sure, but I don't see this earth lasting another 3,800-4,000 years to have time for it to mature.

[bedstuy]

It really depends what qualifies as a religion.  If it's a new denomination of Islam or Christianity maybe.  If it's just something that some guy invents like Scientology, no.

Islam is at least 3,800-4,000 years old.  Abraham's son Ishmael, who was the daughter of an Egyptian maid of Abraham and Sarah who slept with Abraham was the father of Islam.  He is the older half brother of Isaac, the man through whom Judaism and, later, Christianity would come.  Ishmael always disliked Isaac and things have not changed today as Islam as a whole dislikes Jews and Christians.  (I'm not talking about the moderate Muslims who are tolerable to all three religions).  So for another religion to spring up on the level of Islam?  It could, sure, but I don't see this earth lasting another 3,800-4,000 years to have time for it to mature.

Muhammad started Islam in the 7th century.  Muslims think he was descended from Ishmael, but nobody thinks Ishmael founded Islam.

[Franzl]

(I'm not talking about the moderate Muslims who are tolerable to all three religions).

I wonder if you have the same opinion on Christians? Particularly American fundies? A lot of them despise Islam and Muslims. Thankfully, though, there are moderates that tolerate all 3.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Islam is at least 3,800-4,000 years old.  Abraham's son Ishmael, who was the daughter of an Egyptian maid of Abraham and Sarah who slept with Abraham was the father of Islam.  He is the older half brother of Isaac, the man through whom Judaism and, later, Christianity would come.  Ishmael always disliked Isaac and things have not changed today as Islam as a whole dislikes Jews and Christians.  (I'm not talking about the moderate Muslims who are tolerable to all three religions).  So for another religion to spring up on the level of Islam?  It could, sure, but I don't see this earth lasting another 3,800-4,000 years to have time for it to mature.

...

As a student of Arab and Islamic studies, as well as someone with actual brain, I say you know absolutely nothing.

[DC Al Fine]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong

[Franzl]

Islam is at least 3,800-4,000 years old.  Abraham's son Ishmael, who was the daughter of an Egyptian maid of Abraham and Sarah who slept with Abraham was the father of Islam.  He is the older half brother of Isaac, the man through whom Judaism and, later, Christianity would come.  Ishmael always disliked Isaac and things have not changed today as Islam as a whole dislikes Jews and Christians.  (I'm not talking about the moderate Muslims who are tolerable to all three religions).  So for another religion to spring up on the level of Islam?  It could, sure, but I don't see this earth lasting another 3,800-4,000 years to have time for it to mature.

...

As a student of Arab and Islamic studies, as well as someone with actual brain, I say you know absolutely nothing.

This is kind of unrelated...but what do you do with that kind of degree once you have it? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's very interesting and worthwhile....but what kind of job does that allow you to perform?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Bit of an odd question as most degrees don't really work that way.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Islam is at least 3,800-4,000 years old.  Abraham's son Ishmael, who was the daughter of an Egyptian maid of Abraham and Sarah who slept with Abraham was the father of Islam.  He is the older half brother of Isaac, the man through whom Judaism and, later, Christianity would come.  Ishmael always disliked Isaac and things have not changed today as Islam as a whole dislikes Jews and Christians.  (I'm not talking about the moderate Muslims who are tolerable to all three religions).  So for another religion to spring up on the level of Islam?  It could, sure, but I don't see this earth lasting another 3,800-4,000 years to have time for it to mature.

...

As a student of Arab and Islamic studies, as well as someone with actual brain, I say you know absolutely nothing.

This is kind of unrelated...but what do you do with that kind of degree once you have it? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's very interesting and worthwhile....but what kind of job does that allow you to perform?

So tempted to click the "ignore" option.

[Franzl]

So why don't you?

[Tetro Kornbluth]

So why don't you?

Because 99% of the time you are a good poster.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Even from Bushie that post....there are no words...

[Zioneer]

Islam is at least 3,800-4,000 years old.  Abraham's son Ishmael, who was the daughter of an Egyptian maid of Abraham and Sarah who slept with Abraham was the father of Islam.  He is the older half brother of Isaac, the man through whom Judaism and, later, Christianity would come.  Ishmael always disliked Isaac and things have not changed today as Islam as a whole dislikes Jews and Christians.  (I'm not talking about the moderate Muslims who are tolerable to all three religions).  So for another religion to spring up on the level of Islam?  It could, sure, but I don't see this earth lasting another 3,800-4,000 years to have time for it to mature.

...

As a student of Arab and Islamic studies, as well as someone with actual brain, I say you know absolutely nothing.

This is kind of unrelated...but what do you do with that kind of degree once you have it? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's very interesting and worthwhile....but what kind of job does that allow you to perform?

Lots of jobs in national security and ambassadorial duties.

[angus]

Islam is at least 3,800-4,000 years old.  Abraham's son Ishmael, who was the daughter of an Egyptian maid of Abraham and Sarah who slept with Abraham was the father of Islam.  He is the older half brother of Isaac, the man through whom Judaism and, later, Christianity would come.  Ishmael always disliked Isaac and things have not changed today as Islam as a whole dislikes Jews and Christians.  (I'm not talking about the moderate Muslims who are tolerable to all three religions).  So for another religion to spring up on the level of Islam?  It could, sure, but I don't see this earth lasting another 3,800-4,000 years to have time for it to mature.

I'm no religious scholar, but I'd imagine that yours is a very unorthodox historical analysis.  Not that it doesn't contain some relevant facts, but it seems like you might want to read up on this a bit.

[The Mikado]

In fairness to BushOK (but only a little fairness, mind), the Prophet Muhammad wouldn't really take much offense to BushOK's summary.  Ibrahim (Abraham) is, in Islam, considered the "first Muslim" because he was able to formulate the doctrine of monotheism and develop a close tie with Allah, much in the same way many Jews consider Abraham the first Jew despite his living long before Moses and the formulation of the rules and regulations that are usually thought to make Jews Jewish.  Ismail (Ishmael) plays a hugely important role in Islam, particularly because the sanctuary around the Qa'ba in Mecca is traditionally ascribed to him (also, Muslims believe that Ishmael, not Isaac, was the son Abraham nearly sacrificed).

If the Prophet Muhammad were here, he'd say that a "Muslim" is one who submits before God, and that Abraham and Ishmael were the first Muslims, not him.  Similarly, the Musa's (Moses)'s and Jesus' (Isa's) revelations were true revelations of God, but corrupted by men, which is why God needed to try a third time.  That doesn't make Musa and Isa less valid prophets or less valid Muslims, but it makes their followers defective, followers of God's corrupted first and second draft.


The amazing thing about BushOK's explanation is that to accept it, you need to accept the way Islam essentially hijacks the patriarchs from Judaism and Christianity.