What do our resident members of the Party of Lincoln think of this quote? (user search)
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  What do our resident members of the Party of Lincoln think of this quote? (search mode)
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Author Topic: What do our resident members of the Party of Lincoln think of this quote?  (Read 1118 times)
🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
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« on: May 16, 2016, 12:32:12 AM »

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http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=29502

Lincoln is extolling here the free soil ideology.  "Free soil, free labor, free men" as the title of Foner's book puts it.

We have surely come a long way from the economy Lincoln describes, where a large number of people are independent of Capital, if indeed ever we had it. I'm not exactly sure what Lincoln means here by "Capital."   If a man takes out a loan in order to operate his farm, is that dependence on Capital?
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shua
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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2016, 01:13:18 PM »

But seriously, does anyone genuinely think, while being intellectually honest, that Abraham Lincoln would be proud of the present day GOP? The party of Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Dick Cheney, Steve Stockman, Joe Wilson, Scott DesJarlais, Joe Barton, Todd Akin, Richard Mourdock, Ken Buck, Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Pat Buchanan, Tom Tancredo, Chris McDaniel, Louie Gohmert, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Steve King, Newt Gingrich, Paul LePage, Sam Brownback, Rick Scott, Mary Fallin, Orly Taitz, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Steve Scalise, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, David Vitter, Jim Inhofe...and the list goes on.

Nope.  However, there are tons of people who are still Republicans who are publicly critical of where the party currently stands, and there's not a lot of reason to believe Lincoln would be proud of the current Democratic Party (or any of its forms over the years), either.

Trying to apply modern politics to the 1800s is truly bizarre, though, especially using modern terms.  "Lincoln leaned left for his time."  What the  does that even mean?  LOL.  Lincoln is going to be whatever people want him to be, and that's fine.  All we can really say is Abe was a member of a party that was largely pro-business, skeptical of immigration, for restricting and eventually dismantling slavery and it usually attracted the Northern business community, Blacks who could vote (eventually) and religiously Puritan Northerners.  If people want to attach liberal or conservative to those things, fine ... kind of pointless.

To people like RFayette, being conservative has more to do with how much you talk about Jesus, how uncomfortable you are around minorities and how backwards your thinking is, LOL.  I do not share that line of thinking, and calling Lincoln a liberal with a straight face is just as dumb as calling him a conservative.

Dude, Lincoln set out to abolish a quasi-feudalistic agrarian slave society where racial and economic inequality was literally caste-like. If Lincoln wasn't Left for his time, than what on Earth were the Democrats?

I'd love to see an attempt to describe the ideology of the antebellum Democratic party in modern terms.  I expect the result to be hysterical.
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🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,736
Nepal


Political Matrix
E: 1.29, S: -0.70

WWW
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2016, 03:39:03 PM »

But seriously, does anyone genuinely think, while being intellectually honest, that Abraham Lincoln would be proud of the present day GOP? The party of Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Dick Cheney, Steve Stockman, Joe Wilson, Scott DesJarlais, Joe Barton, Todd Akin, Richard Mourdock, Ken Buck, Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Pat Buchanan, Tom Tancredo, Chris McDaniel, Louie Gohmert, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Steve King, Newt Gingrich, Paul LePage, Sam Brownback, Rick Scott, Mary Fallin, Orly Taitz, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Steve Scalise, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, David Vitter, Jim Inhofe...and the list goes on.

Nope.  However, there are tons of people who are still Republicans who are publicly critical of where the party currently stands, and there's not a lot of reason to believe Lincoln would be proud of the current Democratic Party (or any of its forms over the years), either.

Trying to apply modern politics to the 1800s is truly bizarre, though, especially using modern terms.  "Lincoln leaned left for his time."  What the  does that even mean?  LOL.  Lincoln is going to be whatever people want him to be, and that's fine.  All we can really say is Abe was a member of a party that was largely pro-business, skeptical of immigration, for restricting and eventually dismantling slavery and it usually attracted the Northern business community, Blacks who could vote (eventually) and religiously Puritan Northerners.  If people want to attach liberal or conservative to those things, fine ... kind of pointless.

To people like RFayette, being conservative has more to do with how much you talk about Jesus, how uncomfortable you are around minorities and how backwards your thinking is, LOL.  I do not share that line of thinking, and calling Lincoln a liberal with a straight face is just as dumb as calling him a conservative.

Dude, Lincoln set out to abolish a quasi-feudalistic agrarian slave society where racial and economic inequality was literally caste-like. If Lincoln wasn't Left for his time, than what on Earth were the Democrats?

I'd love to see an attempt to describe the ideology of the antebellum Democratic party in modern terms.  I expect the result to be hysterical.
The most accurate if probably classical liberal, as they tended towards free trade and minimal government intervention in the economy.

There was an element of that, but the issue of trade was more regional than partisan. A Pennsylvania Democrat was much more likely to be pro-tariff than was a North Carolina Whig.   And as slavery became increasingly defined in the Southern imagination as a noble institution and not just a necessary evil, there was little compunction among Democrats in that region from using the national government to preserve the institution.
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