Senate Protest and Analysis Thread

[Јas]

Yeah I'm here. I, constitutionally, can't do anything, though, unless Emsworth is away so my position is nearly useless. Emsworth has the overall authority to control the bill debates, decide which amendments to dispose of, and when to start votes. I only do it very rarely and when it is needed.

On the contrary, you are perfectly at liberty to act whenever you please. The Senate rules allow it.

Oh good. I thought the Constitution limited me to a purely secondary role.

Nope.  In fact, the OSPR really gives you primary control over internal Senate affairs. 

That's why i was wondering.

Emsworth is by far the most active VP we've had so far, and when I was PPT, he routinely took action so fast that I never had a chance to do a thing.

That's how I'm starting to feel about Jas.  Man, that guy is efficient

Hey, I thought we had an agreement about not badmouthing each other in public!

[Јas]

Yeah I'm here. I, constitutionally, can't do anything, though, unless Emsworth is away so my position is nearly useless. Emsworth has the overall authority to control the bill debates, decide which amendments to dispose of, and when to start votes. I only do it very rarely and when it is needed.

On the contrary, you are perfectly at liberty to act whenever you please. The Senate rules allow it.

Oh good. I thought the Constitution limited me to a purely secondary role.

Nope.  In fact, the OSPR really gives you primary control over internal Senate affairs. 

That's why i was wondering.

Emsworth is by far the most active VP we've had so far, and when I was PPT, he routinely took action so fast that I never had a chance to do a thing.

That's how I'm starting to feel about Jas.  Man, that guy is efficient

Hey, I thought we had an agreement about not badmouthing each other in public!

But I was complimenting you!

Very well, long may it continue.

[Јas]

Yeah I'm here. I, constitutionally, can't do anything, though, unless Emsworth is away so my position is nearly useless. Emsworth has the overall authority to control the bill debates, decide which amendments to dispose of, and when to start votes. I only do it very rarely and when it is needed.

On the contrary, you are perfectly at liberty to act whenever you please. The Senate rules allow it.

Oh good. I thought the Constitution limited me to a purely secondary role.

Nope.  In fact, the OSPR really gives you primary control over internal Senate affairs. 

That's why i was wondering.

Emsworth is by far the most active VP we've had so far, and when I was PPT, he routinely took action so fast that I never had a chance to do a thing.

That's how I'm starting to feel about Jas.  Man, that guy is efficient

Hey, I thought we had an agreement about not badmouthing each other in public!

But I was complimenting you!

Very well, long may it continue.

As long as you keep up the good work

I knew there was a catch!

[Јas]

Does anyone know where the VP is?

[Јas]

I would like to note my disappointment at the moving of the GTO bill as emergency legislation, while Beirut burns and this government continues to do nothing about it.

[Јas]

I would like to note my disappointment at the moving of the GTO bill as emergency legislation, while Beirut burns and this government continues to do nothing about it.

The reason I did it is frankly I feel Israel is doing what it needs to be doing to get rid of Hezbellah (probably spelled that wrong, don't feel like checking now), even if that means burning Beirut to the ground. Lebanon won't do anything Hezbellah and wants the international community to stop Israel for their rightful attack.

Aside from that after the GTO bill this will be bumped up into that spot.

I do not wish to engage here on a debate on the rights and wrongs of the conflict in the Middle East, suffice to say that I respect that you and I and indeed the other Senators may have divergent views on the rights and wrongs of the conflict. You are entitled to espouse and defend your views on the matter as much as any other Senator.

What I would question is the use of your powers as PPT to influence such a debate, because it favours your political views for the matter to go undiscussed or at least be delayed. This to me seems to represent a politically biased use of the powers of the PPT (a job which I feel on the whole you have been more than adequate at) and is something which I do not favour. While I respect that there may be differing views as to what constitutes an emergency, I would have thought that a consensus would be more inclined to believe that the situation in Israel/Lebanon is more pressing than the GTO.

[Јas]

Nothing on the people in Lebanon who have nothing to do with Hizbollah being killed?

^^^^^^

[Јas]

If a Senator opposes free trade with any of those countries, he could propose an amendment to remove it from the hypothetical "Sub-Saharan Africa Free Trade Bill".

^^^^^^^^
Has anyone had any contact with Vice President Q?
He appears to have been absent for almost 2 weeks.
Does anyone know if he's on official leave of absence or if somethings happened?

[Јas]

Just a note to give notice that I'll be on leave of absence for about a week.
If I may give notice on furture votes:
On my Alcohol Reform Bill amendment - Aye
On all other matters - Abstain

[Јas]

Given the serious deadlines involved, and the sense that the re-districting process may not be completed in time, I would urge that Senator Ernest's bill be brought to the floor by whatever means necessary.

[Јas]

On the Atlasia Revitilisation Committee, I am willing to withdraw the resolution should the current reform package pass (which I presume would render the committee redundant) or should the committee disband before the resolution reaches the floor.

You make fair points Dave, but should neither or the aforesaid events happen, I would like to see a progress report of the committee for it's first three months. Trouble was taken to set the thing up, to find members and so forth. It would be nice to see some fruits of the labour, or at least some level of accountability.

[Јas]

May I just say a word of thanks to Dave Hawk for all his work as PPT. I, and I'm sure my Senate colleagues from the 14th and 15th Senates, appreciate the considerable efforts you made in that role. Well done and best of luck with the future.

[Јas]

Does anyone know where Porce is?
He hasn't logged on since the 10th and I haven't come across any post of his indicating an intended absence.

[Јas]

Glad to see you're back Porce.
Hope things are well.

[Јas]

Can someone point me towards Everett's resignation?

On the point of inactivity, I am surprised by the relative absence of the President - but given the very limited amount of time left for his term, I doubt that moving to have him removed on that basis is worthwhile.

As to the VP, to my knowledge his presence hasn't really been required, so I won't join a motion to remove him at this time.

I am more concerned about the absence (or at least lack of any sign of active engagement with the Senate) of Senators, and could support expulsion on those grounds should a sufficient case be presented.

[Јas]

Can someone point me towards Everett's resignation?

Everett frequently deletes her threads for unclear reasons.  After posting her now-deleted resignation thread on Feb. 10 (shortly after 3am PST, which is also around her last vote in the Senate), she removed 'Senator' from her username and has stopped casting votes here.  This may leave with us with a problem, though I'm content to overlook it given that she's a.) cruising to re-election, b.) not voting now and c.) her replacement is ideologically similar.

OK, well so long as there is no doubt that such a resignation post was made, that it was witnessed by Atlasians such as yourself, and has not been withdrawn, then I'm happy to accept it's validity.

[Јas]

Can we add something in here that would also include the Vice-President being absent as well?

The 14th Amendment allows for a declaration of vacancy of the office of the Vice President.

But I'm not sure if that's what you're getting at. 

[Јas]

The Vice-President is the President of the Senate.

Yep.

If the VP is absent for a certain amount of time, could we declare the PPT as the President of the Senate.

I don't know. According to the Constitution (Art 1, s1) in the absence of the VP, the PPT becomes President of the Senate. Absence is undefined in the document.

Not necessarily declaring him inactive altogether, but just inactive as President of the Senate.

I don't know if this is doable or not.
Why would you want to declare him inactive as one, but not the other anyway?

[Јas]

I don't know. According to the Constitution (Art 1, s1) in the absence of the VP, the PPT becomes President of the Senate. Absence is undefined in the document.

Although, right now, the PPT, when elected, is pretty much the de facto president of the Senate right now, and it's the VP who acts in the PPT's absence, rather than the other way around.

True, just about the only independent function of the VP as President of the Senate retained is tie-breaking.

[Јas]

BTW, I think it would be safe to begin assuming that two Senators (Clay and Gully Foyle) are on extended absence, bringing the quorum to eight.

The situation is quite odd, I've never seen before where Senators effectively ignore the Senate but continue to particpate in forum generally (including voting in the election).

I've introduced a resolution to create a procedure whereby absences such as this lead to reduction in the quorum after 14 days.

[Јas]

I would urge the Vice President to take up his duties as President of the Senate under Articles 8 & 9 of the OSPR. If no such action is taken by Wednesday, I'll invoke Article 2, section 3 of the OSPR.

I would also encourage the President to put forward his cabinet nominees with particular regard to the need for a SoFA to undertake a census per the terms of F.L. 4-4.

[Јas]

Has anyone been in contact with Porce?

He hasn't posted in the Senate since the 22nd, but did post a couple of things in the general forum yesterday. Does anyone know what's up?

[Јas]

Has anyone been in contact with Porce?

He hasn't posted in the Senate since the 22nd, but did post a couple of things in the general forum yesterday. Does anyone know what's up?

Porce's absence is now such that I consider that Article 2, section 2, clause 1 (c) may apply.

This states:
The President of the Senate, in addition to his powers so stated in the Constitution, shall retain the powers and prerogatives as the Presiding Officer of the Senate under the following circumstances:
(c) In any case where the PPT has failed to uphold the provisions of this Procedural Resolution when it is in his power to do so individually.

There are a number of threads wherein the legislative process needs to be moved forward.

I would therefore ask the current President of the Senate, Vice President Yates, to take over the chairing of Senate business.


I would also encourage hearing the opinions of Senators as to at what point Article 2, section 3, clause 1 (iii) would begin to apply.

It states:
If, both of these office holders [PPT & President of the Senate] have been inactive for five or more days or have declared absences,
then the Dean of the Senate shall be the Presiding Officer of the Senate, possessing all of the powers and prerogatives of the PPT.

On the 22nd, a bill was presented for the VP to decide upon. No action has been taken by him since that time.

The 22nd was also the day when the PPT last acted.

I would thus read the above section of the OSPR to apply from tomorrow (the 27th). If the PPT or President of the Senate do not resume their duties and if my Senate colleagues do not object, I, as Dean of the Senate, will seek to move business along.

Given the nature of these matters, I would encourage my fellow Senators to make their views on these matters known here.

[Јas]

I would ask the PPT to open the forum affairs legislative debate spot for the
OSPR Amendment (Absence of PPT) Resolution.

[Јas]

On the understanding that there are currently 3 pieces of legislation on the Senate floor, I would ask the PPT to fully utilise the slots available under Article 3, Section 2, Clause 2 of the OSPR and bring the next available three pieces of legislation onto the floor for consideration.