Zombies, Parties, Elections, and Stuff

[Purple State]

This whole thread just encapsulates perfectly the problems facing Atlasia.

The internet allows zero accountability. It brings out the absolute worst in people, whether their absolute need to win, their hyperpartisanship, their taste for vengeance, their righteous anger.

Far too often people simply lose sight of the fact that this is a game. Mistakes are unforgivable. Compassion is wholly absent. Human shortcomings are simply unacceptable. What gives guys? Games are supposed to be fun little things, played with your friends as a way to kill time.

The truth is major reform is needed, but it isn't about passing some law to cure the scourge of zombies. A change needs to take place in the way we look at and play the game. You want a solution that can work? Pass the legislation and then institute a non-partisan panel to judge the qualifications of new members. No artificial barriers that can easily be gamed. Just real judges that can properly determine who does and does not merit citizenship.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

The hypocracy of the JCP on this issue is funny. They have at least as many (if not a lot more) voting zombies than the RPP, and they're very well aware of it. You guys can hide behind the argument that your zombies are different all you want, in the end it's not going to help you a bit.

It's rather amuzing to see some posters like Marokai and Bgwah twitch and turn, trying to figure out a way to solve this issue without endangering their own zombie army. I especially laughed at Marokai being afraid of hurting "normal people". Where was that concern when he stomped all over newbies rights? BTW, I'm apperently quite smart. Didn't I foresee that your amendment was going to do nothing to stop voting slaves being reqruited?

So this amendment can chase away good intelligent people that wants to join, while it does nothing to prevent what you actually want prevent. Because lets keep it real, if anyone is actually reqruiting voting slaves, they'd just tell said slaves to create an account 25 days before the election and the problem is solved.

Guess I was right.

I agree that voting zombies are a real threat to the fun of this game, but that goes for all the zombies, not just the ones you happen to disagree with. If we truely wants to solve this problem the lefties will have to give up their zombies as well, or soon see the conservatives taking over the game. It's all their call.

And as Purple State said, people need to take a chill pill. This is a game after all.


 

 



   

[Bacon King]

Swedish Cheese, the JCP "zombie" voters as you call them are people who are active on the forum, care about Atlasia and know how it works, but don't become involved too much. Several members of the RPP are like this, including BrandonH, Torie, and dead0man. They are great posters, active people, but they are only really involved Atlasia these days as an election sim, which is, you know, kinda the reason this game was made in the first place. I don't see how these people can honestly be considered "zombies" by any stretch of the imagination.

The members of the RPP I'm labelling as zombies are the posters who suddenly show up, spam posts to meet the requirements, vote the RPP party line, and never do anything else. This is infinitely worse than posters like Torie who are active on the forum but only come down here to vote. This zombie attack will ruin Atlasia. In past elections, voters like Luis Gonzalez or Cindywho show up, get the requirements, vote once, and never do anything again. A select few stay active enough to show up at the next election to vote the RPP line yet again. How are the blue/yellow avatar two-digit post-count voters who have no idea how Atlasia works yet somehow spam the activity requirements and register mere hours before the deadline NOT a blatant example of behind the scenes electoral manipulation? There is something seriously wrong here, and it goes way above and beyond a partisan issue.  I only single out the RPP because they're the only ones doing such nonsense. Honestly, how does anything else compare?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I am bumping this because more people should read it. I've had several people talk to me through PM relating their own concerns to mine, and I know other people are out there who've seen all this nonsense too.

What exactly would you do to solve this problem Mr. Vice-President?

What can be done? The damage has already occured, and there's really no way to legislate against it all. The only thing I can really ask for is that those involved actually make an admission of guilt, and that the rest of Atlasia can see this evidence and know what's really going on.

Zombies wouldn't be able to plead guilty anyways if they only vote.

We have members who aren't very active on this part of the fourm but otherwise very active elsewhere. They still know the other people/candidates.

I'm not talking about the zombies pleading guilty, I'm talking about the people who brought them here.

For example, A-Bob, who invited you to Atlasia? I assume it was also the guy that told you to make the twenty posts the hour before you joined so that you'd be eligible?

A-Bob jumped the gun, I and few others had been in contact with him, but before he could be contacted again, he spammed those posts, and then joined, in the Pacific on is own. If we were influencing him, we would have had him join the Midwest. I wish we did have as much influence and control over the newbies as you claim.

I was thinking of joining the Mideast too actually.

THe mideast and Midwest are two different regions, dummy. Didn't you at least read the Introductory thread? Don't move now unless you really want to you can only move once per 6 weeks.

Uh, I think he was just stating that he wanted to join the Mideast. I don't think he thought they were the same.

Notice the placement of the word "too" after the word "Mideast". I assumed that in haste he mispelled it and meant to say "Mideast Two" as if he thought I had said that and he was just agreeing. Appearently then what he really meant was to disagree with me in which case the word is not only misspelled but also in the wrong place or shouldn't be there at all.

I am bumping this because more people should read it. I've had several people talk to me through PM relating their own concerns to mine, and I know other people are out there who've seen all this nonsense too.

What exactly would you do to solve this problem Mr. Vice-President?

What can be done? The damage has already occured, and there's really no way to legislate against it all. The only thing I can really ask for is that those involved actually make an admission of guilt, and that the rest of Atlasia can see this evidence and know what's really going on.

Zombies wouldn't be able to plead guilty anyways if they only vote.

We have members who aren't very active on this part of the fourm but otherwise very active elsewhere. They still know the other people/candidates.

I'm not talking about the zombies pleading guilty, I'm talking about the people who brought them here.

For example, A-Bob, who invited you to Atlasia? I assume it was also the guy that told you to make the twenty posts the hour before you joined so that you'd be eligible?

A-Bob jumped the gun, I and few others had been in contact with him, but before he could be contacted again, he spammed those posts, and then joined, in the Pacific on is own. If we were influencing him, we would have had him join the Midwest. I wish we did have as much influence and control over the newbies as you claim.

I was thinking of joining the Mideast too actually.

THe mideast and Midwest are two different regions, dummy. Didn't you at least read the Introductory thread? Don't move now unless you really want to you can only move once per 6 weeks.

I know. Which is why I was thinking of joining the Mideast as I said above. Screw the midwest.

I was pointing out that I wasn't recruited to be in the Pacific region persa.
1) What makes you think I'd move?
2) You should be more careful calling people dummies, especially when you're wrong

Well your sentence could have definately been better crafted as to avoid a misunderstanding.

1. I don't know, I just wanted to make sure you knew the restrictions before hand so you don't end up stuck in a region you don't want to be in.

2. I call everyone Dummy. If you want I can call you much worse. Learn some grammar.

[MasterJedi]

Swedish Cheese, the JCP "zombie" voters as you call them are people who are active on the forum, care about Atlasia and know how it works, but don't become involved too much.

Your attacking the same people you're defending. Lahbas, Libertas, A-bob, FallenMorgan, JC, floridarepub, ajc0918 and azmagic have all been participating off the forum. I've seen it and I'm sure you've seen it too but won't admit it. All of these members have over 100 posts or have around 95 and will be there shortly. They're new and are working on establishing themselves on the forum.

They've all voted conservative and the way they party would like them to except for candidates after those in their party. And so has every JCP member save one that I can think of (same actually goes for the RPP too). Why are you not calling your own party out on that if it's troubling you so much?

Our "zombie" members are doing the same thing as yours but you have yet to have any problem with them. They both are active in the rest of the forum, ours are just new. And the members you mentioned haven't come back and stayed interested and as such they haven't voted and won't vote this time around or in the future. Those that are active on the rest of the forum have voted, those who aren't haven't. It's simple as that.

[Bacon King]

I'll be honest, maybe I've gotten a bit caught up in the crusade element of all of this, but there's definitely something game-breaking going on here. It's unparalleled by anything else that anyone's doing. Look at the following examples to see how obvious it is that there's some sort of external manipulation. I couldn't care less if they don't post in Fantasyland, but can you not tell, MJ, how much this all reeks?

Luis Gonzalez
mid 2008: makes 20 posts, disappears by October
March 29th to March 31st 2009: makes 20 posts, giving him enough posts to register
April 1st: registers in Atlasia, joins RPP, makes five more posts
April 19th: votes for RPP Senate candidates, never posts again.

cindywho2212
June 1st 2009: Creates Atlas account, posts once
June 3rd: posts 24 times in 3 hours, giving her exactly enough posts to register. She then registers in the RPP.
June 18th: makes a single post, casting a ballot for RPP candidates
July 10th: after a month away, shows up to cast a ballot for the RPP. Participates in a few other discussions later in the day then never posts again.
She is later admitted to have been openly recruited from elsewhere on the internet.

Libertas
July 8-10 2009: Creates Atlas account, posts around forty times, registers with the RPP in Atlasia as soon as he has enough posts. Stays active over the next few days.
mid-August: shows back up, posts again, votes RPP party line.

A-Bob
June-July: posts maybe a dozen times
early August: again, posts a few times
August 10th: posts twenty times in two hours, registers for the RPP upon meeting the activity requirements, only a day before the cutoff for voting in the August elections

azmagic
July 30th: joins forum, posts a few times
August 12-13: posts thirty times in a few hours, registering for the RPP in Atlasia as soon as possible (missing the cutoff for voting this weekend by mere minutes).

ajc0918
June 20: creates account, posts once
Late July-August 8: posts 15 times
August 13, early AM: post 34 times in an hour. Registers for the RPP in Atlasia immediately upon meeting the activity requirements. Misses the cutoff for voting this weekend by mere minutes.
Like azmagic above, later attempts to vote RPP party line. Hamilton and DWTL claim their votes should count because the two registered before midnight Pacific time.


But yeah, it's things like the above that practically advertise how something is really amiss. "Zombies" isn't even that good of a word to describe them, but people are definitely being bussed in from elsewhere with the sole intention of providing more votes for the RPP. How else did ajc and azmagic know they needed to spam the activity requirements and register right before the deadline? Who told A-Bob to spam for an hour until he met the requirements? Who reminded Libertas to come back after a month away? Note especially the blatancy of the first two cases, before presumably whoever is behind all this learned to mask it. Luis and cindywho are the literal zombies, posting the bare minimum and going away after doing their job and giving the RPP votes. Presumably they are the most obvious cases because the suspicion generated from it led others to be more careful about it, but it's still obvious. Newbies knowing how many posts they need to register, knowing exactly when to register by, and all casting identical ballots. While there aren't any extremely obvious cases like Cindy and Luis, it's still pretty clear that these voters are being manipulated.

Honestly, what good comes out of this? Fantasyland exists for Atlasia, not the other way around.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'm a little tired of people pointing to the JCP as hypocritical in all of this. We encourage people to vote a certain way and we recruit people, but we don't recruit from other places on the internet and we don't instruct our members to spam to get the required amount of posts before they join and vote. If someone can't join, we don't force them, and we don't recruit anywhere else.

We have alot of people that don't post in Atlasia but for the most part they're established members of the forum at large. (Lunar, BRTD, Opebo, etc) You're just being plain disengenuous if you deny the contrast between our members and how the RPP operates.

[California8429]

I'll be honest, maybe I've gotten a bit caught up in the crusade element of all of this, but there's definitely something game-breaking going on here. It's unparalleled by anything else that anyone's doing. Look at the following examples to see how obvious it is that there's some sort of external manipulation. I couldn't care less if they don't post in Fantasyland, but can you not tell, MJ, how much this all reeks?

Luis Gonzalez
mid 2008: makes 20 posts, disappears by October
March 29th to March 31st 2009: makes 20 posts, giving him enough posts to register
April 1st: registers in Atlasia, joins RPP, makes five more posts
April 19th: votes for RPP Senate candidates, never posts again.

cindywho2212
June 1st 2009: Creates Atlas account, posts once
June 3rd: posts 24 times in 3 hours, giving her exactly enough posts to register. She then registers in the RPP.
June 18th: makes a single post, casting a ballot for RPP candidates
July 10th: after a month away, shows up to cast a ballot for the RPP. Participates in a few other discussions later in the day then never posts again.
She is later admitted to have been openly recruited from elsewhere on the internet.

Libertas
July 8-10 2009: Creates Atlas account, posts around forty times, registers with the RPP in Atlasia as soon as he has enough posts. Stays active over the next few days.
mid-August: shows back up, posts again, votes RPP party line.

A-Bob
June-July: posts maybe a dozen times
early August: again, posts a few times
August 10th: posts twenty times in two hours, registers for the RPP upon meeting the activity requirements, only a day before the cutoff for voting in the August elections

azmagic
July 30th: joins forum, posts a few times
August 12-13: posts thirty times in a few hours, registering for the RPP in Atlasia as soon as possible (missing the cutoff for voting this weekend by mere minutes).

ajc0918
June 20: creates account, posts once
Late July-August 8: posts 15 times
August 13, early AM: post 34 times in an hour. Registers for the RPP in Atlasia immediately upon meeting the activity requirements. Misses the cutoff for voting this weekend by mere minutes.
Like azmagic above, later attempts to vote RPP party line. Hamilton and DWTL claim their votes should count because the two registered before midnight Pacific time.


But yeah, it's things like the above that practically advertise how something is really amiss. "Zombies" isn't even that good of a word to describe them, but people are definitely being bussed in from elsewhere with the sole intention of providing more votes for the RPP. How else did ajc and azmagic know they needed to spam the activity requirements and register right before the deadline? Who told A-Bob to spam for an hour until he met the requirements? Who reminded Libertas to come back after a month away? Note especially the blatancy of the first two cases, before presumably whoever is behind all this learned to mask it. Luis and cindywho are the literal zombies, posting the bare minimum and going away after doing their job and giving the RPP votes. Presumably they are the most obvious cases because the suspicion generated from it led others to be more careful about it, but it's still obvious. Newbies knowing how many posts they need to register, knowing exactly when to register by, and all casting identical ballots. While there aren't any extremely obvious cases like Cindy and Luis, it's still pretty clear that these voters are being manipulated.

Honestly, what good comes out of this? Fantasyland exists for Atlasia, not the other way around.

In my defense I didn't know we even had a deadline to be able to vote until today

[MasterJedi]

I'm a little tired of people pointing to the JCP as hypocritical in all of this. We encourage people to vote a certain way and we recruit people, but we don't recruit from other places on the internet and we don't instruct our members to spam to get the required amount of posts before they join and vote. If someone can't join, we don't force them, and we don't recruit anywhere else.

We have alot of people that don't post in Atlasia but for the most part they're established members of the forum at large. (Lunar, BRTD, Opebo, etc) You're just being plain disengenuous if you deny the contrast between our members and how the RPP operates.

1. Only Cindywho was recruited off forum and she's not around anymore. Will you or anyone else listen? Nope!

2. Our members are participating on the rest of the forum? Will you or anyone else listen? Nope!

3. Will you saying any of this matter as we continue to recruit the forum's conservatives as they join and become active? Nope!

[Marokai Backbeat]

1. Only Cindywho was recruited off forum and she's not around anymore. Will you or anyone else listen? Nope!

First of all, cindy not being around anymore doesn't make a damn bit of difference. She was recruited offsite, encouraged to spam her way to 25 posts, vote the party line, and was disposed of her usefulness once she apparently decided not to come back.

Even so, we have reason to suspect some of your members are being recruited from other political sites or games like NationStates and Bgwah and I spied a couple of your members (one came first, then the other) as members of another forum, more reason to suspect you're come from elsewhere.

Forgive me, but don't expect my intelligence to be insulted by such BS. Three whiffs of off-site recruiting would lead anyone with half a mind to suspect more is going on if only we could uncover it, and new blue-avatars being recruited immediately and ordered to spam their way to eligibility would also lead one to believe something more nefarious afoot.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Some are, but most are pretty young and stupid, to be quite frank. One of your members posted a thread saying that if Elvis was alive, he'd be a Huckabee supporter, another supposedly flip-flops with his sexuality and compliments Vodka, despite being 14, and other members simply only spam because they have to, officepark style. Posting doesn't necessarily mean you're a serious member of Atlas, this goes for plenty of us.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Recruiting established members the way you're supposed to is just fine, like how you recruited Fezzy. That's all well and good. When you recruit people who don't know the slightest thing about Atlas or Atlasia, and they're directed to post over 30 times in 45 minutes it's not just normal recruiting, the way the JCP does it.

(Also, come on, we got a flurry of conservative Pacificans, I'm not a moron, MJ)

And yet in the end I'll get you banned!

You stay classy now.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I'm a little tired of people pointing to the JCP as hypocritical in all of this. We encourage people to vote a certain way and we recruit people, but we don't recruit from other places on the internet and we don't instruct our members to spam to get the required amount of posts before they join and vote. If someone can't join, we don't force them, and we don't recruit anywhere else.

We have alot of people that don't post in Atlasia but for the most part they're established members of the forum at large. (Lunar, BRTD, Opebo, etc) You're just being plain disengenuous if you deny the contrast between our members and how the RPP operates.

I don't expect you to listen nor do I expect to be able to knock some sense into your head.

I only know of one person being recruited offsite, Cindy and she is gone. Most of our recuits are active throughout the forum just like your guy's, people like Nik, Giovanni, Lahbas, Floridarepub, Big bad Fab, etc. The people that you point too are the exceptions. Consider something else, when I recuited Hamilton he was no different in regards to activity then Dcush. I even said to myself, I hope this doesn't end up like the last Californian I recuited. How was I suppose to know Dcush would go innactive and Hamilton would not, I didn't. I found them on the forum in similar ways and both were semi-active to not active at the time. I figured if anything Atlasia would give them a reason to get more involved. Also I have seen posts from ajc, Azmagic, and A-bob all over the forum.

So I frankly don't see the difference. We have a handful 3 or 4 posters that are what you say and I bet if I dig through your party membership I can find at least that many, two. There is no grand conspiracy to overrun the forums with outsiders, If there was I would do everything in my power to stop it.

You may no ignore this post in compliance with the JCP's 11th Commendment, "Thou shall not read a word of reasoning from RPPer's".

Btw you bastards, my own chairman, our egotistical GM who can't admit he is f**king wrong, the activities and stupidity of some of our new members, I must say I really getting sick of this forum and the motherf**kers that inhabit it. You can all go straight to hell for all I care.

[Хahar 🤔]

The fact is, this game isn't about strategic placement of voters. It shouldn't be.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Btw you bastards, my own chairman, our egotistical GM who can't admit he is f**king wrong, the activities and stupidity of some of our new members, I must say I really getting sick of this forum and the motherf**kers that inhabit it. You can all go straight to hell for all I care.

Chill out. I'm not suggesting there's a party-wide conspiracy here, I'm suggesting there are a few members of the RPP that may or may not be recruiting off-site and directing newbies (who know nothing about the site) to do their bidding. Plenty of members are examples of this and we in the JCP have a few reasons to suspect what we do. There's no need to lose your mind over it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Btw you bastards, my own chairman, our egotistical GM who can't admit he is f**king wrong, the activities and stupidity of some of our new members, I must say I really getting sick of this forum and the motherf**kers that inhabit it. You can all go straight to hell for all I care.

Chill out. I'm not suggesting there's a party-wide conspiracy here, I'm suggesting there are a few members of the RPP that may or may not be recruiting off-site and directing newbies (who know nothing about the site) to do their bidding. Plenty of members are examples of this and we in the JCP have a few reasons to suspect what we do. There's no need to lose your mind over it.

Thats impossible cause some of the people you are talking about I recuited and they were already on the goddamn forums.

I lost my mind years ago, Marokai.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

There is a lot of hypocrisy being thrown around. I haven't seen many of the new RPPers spamming their way around the message board (I really haven't seen much from them at all, not sure where they are posting), but I sure have seen sewersocialist trolling and spamming, yet he's a respected member of Atlasia and almost was endorsed by the NLF. Until "standards" like that change, this argument is just a lot of hot air from both sides and tough to be taken seriously.

[Alexander Hamilton]

There is a lot of hypocrisy being thrown around. I haven't seen many of the new RPPers spamming their way around the message board (I really haven't seen much from them at all, not sure where they are posting), but I sure have seen sewersocialist trolling and spamming, yet he's a respected member of Atlasia and almost was endorsed by the NLF. Until "standards" like that change, this argument is just a lot of hot air from both sides and tough to be taken seriously.

And the JCP!

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

There is a lot of hypocrisy being thrown around. I haven't seen many of the new RPPers spamming their way around the message board (I really haven't seen much from them at all, not sure where they are posting), but I sure have seen sewersocialist trolling and spamming, yet he's a respected member of Atlasia and almost was endorsed by the NLF. Until "standards" like that change, this argument is just a lot of hot air from both sides and tough to be taken seriously.

And the JCP!

You get my point, though. All the talk of reforming and keeping zombies away is simply hot air because both sides are just as guilty of it. Does the RPP engage in off-site recruiting? I have no idea. No one has ever told me of such practices, and I don't have a crystal ball that tells me these answers.

And those people saying the game isn't about winning need to get real too. Why else would be play it if we constantly lose? The SDP was disbanded because Marokai wanted the left wing in Atlasia to be stronger. That sounds like he wanted to see them start winning more elections to me.

We all want to win elections. These attacks, some of them completely understandable, are hurled at the RPP partly because of the populous' wish to see our outspoken and sometimes over the top leader DWTL destroyed. Many, many people have a right to be angry at him, but some of the things in this thread is the pot calling the kettle black. It's almost humorous.

[Хahar 🤔]

Of course everyone wants to win. But winning in a matter contrary to the spirit of the game makes it no fun.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I agree with pretty much everything Duke has said. This has gone way over the top. There is no proof, not even signs, of offsite recruiting (besides supposedly cindywho, but who the hell is she anyways). All this complaining does is make the game less fun, because really, we should be open to anyone who wants to participate (non-troll).

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Of course everyone wants to win. But winning in a matter contrary to the spirit of the game makes it no fun.

Agreed. However, I see no difference in the JCP trotting out longtime members who haven't made a relevant post in years in Atlasia from the RPP trotting out new members on the forum who have just begun posting. Both sides are equally as guilty of engaging in zombie voting.

If the RPP is going out and recruiting people from other sites to join just for voting in Atlasia, then shame on us. But as I have said, I have never heard of such a practice, and in private conversations with DWTL, neither has he. Either I am extremely misinformed, or all of these accusations are just hearsay.

[Bacon King]

As Marokai has already stated, guys, only cindywho is the only one who was admittedly recruited off-site. The behavior of other new RPP members (rushing to post enough to meet requirements, registering right at deadlines) make it clear that cindywho wasn't really just an isolated incident. I don't see how we can assume other posters with similar behavior to her somehow weren't brought here the same way.

Duke, I understand what you're saying but I think you seriously misunderstand my intentions. I'm totally cool with the RPP beating the JCP. I mean, everyone would prefer to win, but I definitely know that you just gotta roll with the punches sometimes. I made such a big deal over this because it transcends the JCP/RPP competition and just shows that someone out there cares so much about winning that they'll ruin the game to do it. Seriously, say the current trend continues and Atlasia becomes 10% cindywho's. Wouldn't that just suck for everyone? It wouldn't be about competition anymore, it would just be about whatever faction can recruit a big enough herd to push to the polls. I don't want to see Atlasia become like that, and unfortunately the practices I've pointed out in this thread show that we're already on that path.

Also, Duke, note my descriptions of people on the fourth page; the spamming that occurs isn't blatant or widespread just because the numbers needed are so low. Half of azmagic's last-minute post rush for example was a single conversation with Hamilton.

I'll admit that perhaps I overstated the numbers- some posters that seemed peculiar to me at first later had explainable histories- but I do think that it's obvious something fishy is going on. I've never accused the RPP as a whole, mind you, but I think it's obvious someone behind the scenes is recruiting people for their own benefit. Hell, for all I know Hamilton is really Ogis and he's just getting some of his troll friends in on it too (not an accusation!).

Also Duke I don't really know anyone that respects sewer socialist much, actually. More toleration than anything else. I'm really annoyed by the guy all the time, if that counts for anything. I do understand where you're coming from, though- though I'd prefer if this doesn't devolve into a silly "JCP ZOMBEIS VS. RPP ZOMBIES" thing, because the recruited voters I've mentioned don't really have an equivalence anywhere else. My party's "zombies" are, like I've said, active posters who just don't do the whole "political squabbling" thing in Atlasia. Your party has members like that, like Torie, dead0man, Brandon most of the time. I don't see any problem with those guys. My problem is solely with the people who are on this forum just to give someone extra votes, and if you really look at the evidence I've been posting I think you will notice that some degree of manipulation like that has definitely been occurring.

[Alexander Hamilton]

As Marokai has already stated, guys, only cindywho is the only one who was admittedly recruited off-site. The behavior of other new RPP members (rushing to post enough to meet requirements, registering right at deadlines) make it clear that cindywho wasn't really just an isolated incident. I don't see how we can assume other posters with similar behavior to her somehow weren't brought here the same way.

Duke, I understand what you're saying but I think you seriously misunderstand my intentions. I'm totally cool with the RPP beating the JCP. I mean, everyone would prefer to win, but I definitely know that you just gotta roll with the punches sometimes. I made such a big deal over this because it transcends the JCP/RPP competition and just shows that someone out there cares so much about winning that they'll ruin the game to do it. Seriously, say the current trend continues and Atlasia becomes 10% cindywho's. Wouldn't that just suck for everyone? It wouldn't be about competition anymore, it would just be about whatever faction can recruit a big enough herd to push to the polls. I don't want to see Atlasia become like that, and unfortunately the practices I've pointed out in this thread show that we're already on that path.

Also, Duke, note my descriptions of people on the fourth page; the spamming that occurs isn't blatant or widespread just because the numbers needed are so low. Half of azmagic's last-minute post rush for example were a single conversation with Hamilton.

I'll admit that perhaps I overstated the numbers- some posters that seemed peculiar to me at first later had explainable histories- but I do think that it's obvious something fishy is going on. I've never accused the RPP as a whole, mind you, but I think it's obvious someone behind the scenes is recruiting people for their own benefit. Hell, for all I know Hamilton is really Ogis and he's just getting some of his troll friends in on it too (not an accusation!).

Also Duke I don't really know anyone that respects sewer socialist much, actually. More toleration than anything else. I'm really annoyed by the guy all the time, if that counts for anything. I do understand where you're coming from, though- though I'd prefer if this doesn't devolve into a silly "JCP ZOMBEIS VS. RPP ZOMBIES" thing, because the recruited voters I've mentioned don't really have an equivalence anywhere else. My party's "zombies" are, like I've said, active posters who just don't do the whole "political squabbling" thing in Atlasia. Your party has members like that, like Torie, dead0man, Brandon most of the time. I don't see any problem with those guys. My problem is solely with the people who are on this forum just to give someone extra votes, and if you really look at the evidence I've been posting I think you will notice that some degree of manipulation like that has definitely been occurring.

My conversation with azmagic was legitimate and non-trollish and productive. And I'd jsut like to remind you that the RPP feels having Flyers, Sensei, BRTD, phknrocket1k, etc. voting ruins the game a bit more than people that are new but still occasionally post here.

[Bacon King]

Hamilton, like I said, how are those voters any different than Torie, dead0man, etc.? I think you are projecting a double standard here.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

As Marokai has already stated, guys, only cindywho is the only one who was admittedly recruited off-site. The behavior of other new RPP members (rushing to post enough to meet requirements, registering right at deadlines) make it clear that cindywho wasn't really just an isolated incident. I don't see how we can assume other posters with similar behavior to her somehow weren't brought here the same way.

It very well be occurring. I just have no knowledge of it even with my knowledge of what's going on in the party. Like anything on the internet, unfortunately, it is difficult to prove and thus hard to stop. We can hope that everyone here has good attentions as you and I, but that simply is impossible. There will always be those who try to beat the system.

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Well, we aren't beating the JCP, so no worries there.

If the game became like 10% cindywho's, then yes, it would be a travesty. I'd be the first to admit it. I don't want that to happen, and I would hope that everyone in the RPP would agree with me. Unless we can get creative, there's sadly no way to really prevent it. I have no idea what kind of reform is needed to ensure that it doesn't happen. I hope that no one out there is working to make it a reality.

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Noted. As I said, I haven't seen their posts, so I can't really make judgements. JewishConservative has really turned me off of the new Republicans, so I tend to ignore most of their posts.

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Again, from what I know, and I could be out of the loop, no one within the RPP leadership (myself, SPC, PiT or DWTL) is recruiting people from other sites to come here for the sole purpose of registering and voting in Atlasia, nor do we, to my knowledge, have information about someone who is. As I have said to you in private numerous times, I would be very disappointed if that is the case. Hamilton has been a recruiting machine, but we have no proof that he's bringing them in from other sides to spam their way to enough posts. I hope that isn't the case, at least.

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It's good you don't respect sewersocialist. I would hope no one would based on the behavior he has exhibited during his time here. It's disturbing that he seemed to have a solid following though. Again, the sewersocialist comment is not directed at you.

And your party's zombies are much more established, you're right, which makes any kind of reform so subjective. Are the new members in the RPP going to turn out to be good members of this site? I have no idea. None of us do. Would it be fair to shut them down before we can find out? Probably not. Many of them probably will turn out to be duds, because we are seeing a lot of trolls/fakes joining, but it appears like A-Bob may be a legitimate guy. I don't know. It's so hard to tell, which is why I have so many problems trusting any new member that joins this site. We just don't know.

[Sewer]

I would hope no one would based on the behavior he has exhibited during his time here.

What behavior?

It's disturbing that he seemed to have a solid following though.

I have a following? lol.