Pope Francis on Paris Attack - "one who throws insults can expect a 'punch'"

[patrick1]

Interesting exchanges here.  One thing I've grown quite intrigued over my decade of posting on this forum is how the medium can dictate behavior.  An internet forum, or in Hebdo's case print, provides a a distance and detachment from how people would normally interact with each other in person.  I think I've singled out BRTD on this several times, in that how he engages on the forum may get him popped in the jaw in real life. However, I think all of us behave differently from behind a keyboard and say things we may not otherwise.

As a thought exercise, how many of you would print out the phallic Mohammed cartoons and stroll down to the local mosque and  stick them in the worshipers' faces. I'd say that that was provocative or more crudely dickish behavior.  You are intentionally mocking people's most firmly held beliefs and conception of themselves.  In most instances, more important to them than their race, gender or nationality. When you push people's buttons, you will get a reaction. Of course, I support people's right to be a dick in print and person. It is the mark of a mature and self assured belief that you not let yourself be antagonized and react.

[patrick1]

Anvi, I disagree with the last bit about not caring about the content.  Within the so called Islamic state people are getting their heads lopped off for all sorts of blasphemy, sorcery and assorted haram activities on a daily basis.  I dont think they are very sophisticated or rational in their tactics and strategy. Al Qaeda 1.0 seems to have been a more rational actor and that was  due to their more centralized command and control.  I think the France attacks are more in line with the new diffuse nature of things.

[patrick1]

There seems a tactic to separate individuals and groups out when it comes to ridicule.

A common refrain here is that it is not individual Muslims but their beliefs that they have a problem with.

Religions, like the RCC, conversely make a distinction on homosexuality that it is an action and not an individual that leads them to believe that someone is a sinner. So the gay lifestyle becomes the boogieman based on an argument that it is unnatural.

The big problem is that people operate with their own sets of facts and get very offended or violent when their own person or group is mocked but have little empathy doing the same.

I don't think I really have a point in all this.  I tend to agree with Alcon that people should learn to handle, accept, and be able to laugh or pity crudity.  Then again,I fear that the human race has not progressed much beyond the schoolyard so free speech can be dangerous.

[patrick1]

Without wishing to wade too far into the rather fraught debate here, isn't there an element of 'shock as Pope is Catholic' to this? Or, rather, 'shock as Pope is the Pope'? It would be very, very surprising if the leader of the largest religious institution on earth was anything other than down on anti-religious satire.

2) There is the question why Francis felt the need to comment on this at all. The Vatican comments on a wide range of topics and he probably felt he had to have an opinion of something this big. Still, his advisers should have told this was a topic he better stay away from. It will only damage the church and there is no way he can play a constructive role. In the present situation there is no room for compromise on this issue in Europe.

The Pope should not be some politician who is afraid to speak out for public relations purposes. It is his role to weigh in.

Good point Al, sometimes it is important to restate the obvious.

[patrick1]

Without wishing to wade too far into the rather fraught debate here, isn't there an element of 'shock as Pope is Catholic' to this? Or, rather, 'shock as Pope is the Pope'? It would be very, very surprising if the leader of the largest religious institution on earth was anything other than down on anti-religious satire.

2) There is the question why Francis felt the need to comment on this at all. The Vatican comments on a wide range of topics and he probably felt he had to have an opinion of something this big. Still, his advisers should have told this was a topic he better stay away from. It will only damage the church and there is no way he can play a constructive role. In the present situation there is no room for compromise on this issue in Europe.

The Pope should not be some politician who is afraid to speak out for public relations purposes. It is his role to weigh in.

Good point Al, sometimes it is important to restate the obvious.

Perhaps he shouldn't, but the Vatican is also political institution and they do lay low on issues from time to time. With the church near collapse in many European countries this will be yet another nail to the coffin for the Catholic church in Europe. 

This manufactured controversy is not going to make anyone leave their church....this forum and the media makes a big deal out of minor things.