Can Romney win in any legitimate scenario?

[useful idiot]

He has a good chance against Obama, but he'd be at a very serious disadvantage against Hillary and would get trounced by Edwards.

[useful idiot]

He has a good chance against Obama, but he'd be at a very serious disadvantage against Hillary and would get trounced by Edwards.

...and you figure this how? He would have a far better shot against Clinton than Obama.

Because the people that wouldn't vote for him because of his religion would be far less likely to vote for a liberal black man. Add to that the fact that Obama doesn't nearly live up to the hype: he's genuinely boring, not the man we saw at the 2004 convention, which is the entire basis for his hype. He's scarily unqualified, and he has a weird name and abnormal background. His support lies in young people, urban yuppies who support him because of his race, and Hollywood types. Clinton won't lose any Kerry states and will pick up Ohio for sure, with a good probability of picking up Iowa and New Mexico, possibly Florida as well.

[useful idiot]

He has a good chance against Obama, but he'd be at a very serious disadvantage against Hillary and would get trounced by Edwards.

...and you figure this how? He would have a far better shot against Clinton than Obama.

Because the people that wouldn't vote for him because of his religion would be far less likely to vote for a liberal black man. Add to that the fact that Obama doesn't nearly live up to the hype: he's genuinely boring, not the man we saw at the 2004 convention, which is the entire basis for his hype. He's scarily unqualified, and he has a weird name and abnormal background. His support lies in young people, urban yuppies who support him because of his race, and Hollywood types. Clinton won't lose any Kerry states and will pick up Ohio for sure, with a good probability of picking up Iowa and New Mexico, possibly Florida as well.

This is all based on your personal opinions though. Fundraising, general election polling, favorability numbers would all point to Obama being a far stronger candidate than Clinton. Half of the country says they won't vote for Clinton...something like that will be insanely difficult to overcome in the general  (perhaps even against someone like Romney).

Most everything this far out is speculation and opinion. Obama's fundraising doesn't seem to be helping him very much, because Clinton is still way out ahead of Obama in nearly every poll for the nod. Mitt Romney and Obama are both so unfamiliar to the public(outside IA and NH) that general election polling for matchups against each other mean nothing. Thats the same reason why favourability ratings don't really account for much; the fact is Obama has way too many handicaps that Hillary just doesn't have. Hillary has 3x the amount of national office experience that Obama does and she's only been in the senate for one term. He's too much of a newcomer, and his lack of polish, policy knowledge, and debating skills are becoming really apparent. Hillary has done really well in the debates and after running as a moderate in the primaries she doesn't have to do a flip flop to grab indies and the base will stick with her anyway to make sure a Republican doesn't get the presidency. One sad fact about Obama's lack of potency is that from everything I've heard African Americans still prefer Hillary.

[useful idiot]

He has a good chance against Obama, but he'd be at a very serious disadvantage against Hillary and would get trounced by Edwards.

...and you figure this how? He would have a far better shot against Clinton than Obama.

Because the people that wouldn't vote for him because of his religion would be far less likely to vote for a liberal black man. Add to that the fact that Obama doesn't nearly live up to the hype: he's genuinely boring, not the man we saw at the 2004 convention, which is the entire basis for his hype. He's scarily unqualified, and he has a weird name and abnormal background. His support lies in young people, urban yuppies who support him because of his race, and Hollywood types. Clinton won't lose any Kerry states and will pick up Ohio for sure, with a good probability of picking up Iowa and New Mexico, possibly Florida as well.

This is all based on your personal opinions though. Fundraising, general election polling, favorability numbers would all point to Obama being a far stronger candidate than Clinton. Half of the country says they won't vote for Clinton...something like that will be insanely difficult to overcome in the general  (perhaps even against someone like Romney).

Most everything this far out is speculation and opinion. Obama's fundraising doesn't seem to be helping him very much, because Clinton is still way out ahead of Obama in nearly every poll for the nod. Mitt Romney and Obama are both so unfamiliar to the public(outside IA and NH) that general election polling for matchups against each other mean nothing. Thats the same reason why favourability ratings don't really account for much; the fact is Obama has way too many handicaps that Hillary just doesn't have. Hillary has 3x the amount of national office experience that Obama does and she's only been in the senate for one term. He's too much of a newcomer, and his lack of polish, policy knowledge, and debating skills are becoming really apparent. Hillary has done really well in the debates and after running as a moderate in the primaries she doesn't have to do a flip flop to grab indies and the base will stick with her anyway to make sure a Republican doesn't get the presidency. One sad fact about Obama's lack of potency is that from everything I've heard African Americans still prefer Hillary.

None of this explains how Hillary will overcome the fact that half of the country pretty much hates her and won't for her.

Gut feeling . I'm not supporting Hillary for the nomination but I think she's a very skilled campaigner who fights dirty and would take Romney's flip-flopping to task. Obama can't fight as dirty and still be what he claims to be, a change to politics as usual.

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I was using the unknown label to point out that general election polls between two unknowns are not exactly telling us anything. Most blacks SHOULD know who Obama is by now though, even if they don't.

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He wouldn't have to run to the center. I wasn't pointing out Hillary's superiority to Obama in this regard, but saying that the Republicans will have a harder time ripping her to shreds as a left winger based on her primary campaigning.