Who scares you more?

[Alexander Hamilton]

Well yeah, but we're HUGE parts of both organizations and they ain't going if we aren't willing to go.  Well, we HAVE to go if a fellow NATO state is attacked.

So lets say Israel is on the brink and some of our buddies in Europe decide they don't want to see another holocaust and attempt to assist the Israelis, would you be up for assisting them?  What if they just wanted to use our transportation infrastructure?  Would you be cool with using C5s to ship German Leopards to Tel Aviv?

We should drop out of both organizations. The US should be a symbol of neutrality the world over. Unless American lives are lost, I don't see any reason for intervention.

Your trade positions suggest pro-interventionism.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Well yeah, but we're HUGE parts of both organizations and they ain't going if we aren't willing to go.  Well, we HAVE to go if a fellow NATO state is attacked.

So lets say Israel is on the brink and some of our buddies in Europe decide they don't want to see another holocaust and attempt to assist the Israelis, would you be up for assisting them?  What if they just wanted to use our transportation infrastructure?  Would you be cool with using C5s to ship German Leopards to Tel Aviv?

We should drop out of both organizations. The US should be a symbol of neutrality the world over. Unless American lives are lost, I don't see any reason for intervention.

Your trade positions suggest pro-interventionism.

There is a difference between interventionism of the trade and interventionism of the gun.

That, in turn, suggests a lack of neutrality.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Well yeah, but we're HUGE parts of both organizations and they ain't going if we aren't willing to go.  Well, we HAVE to go if a fellow NATO state is attacked.

So lets say Israel is on the brink and some of our buddies in Europe decide they don't want to see another holocaust and attempt to assist the Israelis, would you be up for assisting them?  What if they just wanted to use our transportation infrastructure?  Would you be cool with using C5s to ship German Leopards to Tel Aviv?

We should drop out of both organizations. The US should be a symbol of neutrality the world over. Unless American lives are lost, I don't see any reason for intervention.

Your trade positions suggest pro-interventionism.

There is a difference between interventionism of the trade and interventionism of the gun.

That, in turn, suggests a lack of neutrality.

What me and dead0man are discussing is US military intervention, whether through aid or direct. Trade is a natural function of society, any nation that doesn't trade is on the fast track to extinction. I can not same the same for the nation that uses intervention of force when it doesn't concern them.

I understand that. But I am referring to you assertion that the US should be a symbol of neutrality. I see your current idea of neutrality (based on stated positions) as being US in 1939-1941. It may not be true, but is easy to infer from previous statements.

[Alexander Hamilton]

There is a difference between interventionism of the trade and interventionism of the gun.

I'm confused, are you anti free trade?  If so that is much more non-libertarian than being pro-Isreal....at least to me.


(also, your sig is WAY to tall)

He said it's okay to use trade as leverage against nations that committ violations of human rights -a form of interventionism, I believe.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I'd like to point out to dead0man and Mechman, and numerous others, that libertarianism and the Liibertarian Party will never grow if it continues to be defined as real libertarianism and "moralf****try." It is the equivalent of RINO and DINO purging (aka political suicide).

[Alexander Hamilton]

There is a difference between interventionism of the trade and interventionism of the gun.

I'm confused, are you anti free trade?  If so that is much more non-libertarian than being pro-Isreal....at least to me.


(also, your sig is WAY to tall)

He said it's okay to use trade as leverage against nations that committ violations of human rights -a form of interventionism, I believe.

Ahh, I agree with Mechman then.  We shouldn't trade with states that are horrible to their people and that includes the PRC and the Fundies on the Arabian peninsula even it means a drop in the quality of life of Americans and others in the West.

I will admit I'm hesitant for freely signing away on free trade agreements if the nations in question have a poor record on human rights.

Agreed.

I don't disagree with that position, ftr.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I'd like to point out to dead0man and Mechman, and numerous others, that libertarianism and the Liibertarian Party will never grow if it continues to be defined as real libertarianism and "moralf****try." It is the equivalent of RINO and DINO purging (aka political suicide).

I don't expect the Libertarian Party to ever grow.  I expect (hope?) the Dems or the Pubs will turn more towards libertarianism to win people like me over or a new party springs up after the death of one of the big boys with a strong streak of liberty and small govt.

Exactly.

Ideology as well.