Scottish Independence Referendum - 18 September 2014

[THE_TITAN]

The Scottish people need to realise that Alex Salmond and his SNP cronies have no plan B for two integral parts of their white paper.

First on the currency union, all three main Westminster parties have clearly stated no such union will take place and yet Salmond continues to propagate the opinion that a currency union will happen and that it is all bluff from the three main parties. I'm not Scottish but I wouldn't be prepared to gamble on the currency. Let's assume, as is most likely the case, that Westminster doesn't back-track and no currency union takes place, what are Scotland's other options? Well the first option would be to create their own currency, huge problems and costs would arise in doing so. A new Scottish currency would incur large costs due to currency conversion of imports/exports and would also be exposed to currency risk and that's not mentioning the cost of re-structuring that would have to take place. The other option would be to join the euro, which at present is neither an enticing prospect nor a viable one as my next point will indicate.

The Scots will lose their EU membership and have to re-apply as a new member-state. Salmond seems to assume that the rules in EU law won't apply to Scotland and that it is a "special" case. This is just simply not the case at all! Scotland will no doubt have to give up something significant in accession negotiations, because every country has had to in the past. Plus they would need the acceptance of all EU member-states. Spain certainly would have a vested interest in vetoing the Scottish bid so as to dissuade Catalonia from attempting to gain independence.

Those are just two primary issues that the SNP have no back-up plan for, or at least they have not detailed such plans in public. We're not even mentioning the tough negotiations that would occur with the rest of the UK if Scotland were to vote "yes", by which point the gloves will well and truly be off and all the niceties of the "better together" campaign will be out of the window.

The SNP really don't have a strong enough argument to leave the Union.

[THE_TITAN]

The notion that an independent Scotland would have any trouble entering the European Union is laughable on its face. There would be nothing "to give up" because Scotland is already a member of the European Union and is already compliant with all European Union rules and regulations.

You clearly don't understand the accession process. They would technically be a new member-state and as such would have to re-apply. If they continue to use sterling without a currency union then they couldn't re-join the EU as a central bank is required so that isn't an option. Plus it would need the acceptance of all 28 member-states. EU negotiations are a long and arduous process and no doubt they will have to satisfy all 28 members so they will have to concede on some negotiation points of that I have no doubt.

[THE_TITAN]

The notion that an independent Scotland would have any trouble entering the European Union is laughable on its face. There would be nothing "to give up" because Scotland is already a member of the European Union and is already compliant with all European Union rules and regulations.

You clearly don't understand the accession process. They would technically be a new member-state and as such would have to re-apply. If they continue to use sterling without a currency union then they couldn't re-join the EU as a central bank is required so that isn't an option. Plus it would need the acceptance of all 28 member-states. EU negotiations are a long and arduous process and no doubt they will have to satisfy all 28 members so they will have to concede on some negotiation points of that I have no doubt.

Xahar is right. To enter EU, you have to conform to various regulations, which are pre-defined. Logically, Scotland already respect all those regulations, given it's already subjected to those regulations.

May be so but it is an irrelevant point. They would legally be a new member-state and so have to re-apply. Accession process would be lengthy even for a country like Scotland that adheres to all rules and regs. Dr. Barroso didn't say it would be "difficult" for no reason. All 28 EU member-states would have to agree and I think you'd at the very least have to persuade Spain.

[THE_TITAN]

Plenty of countries use others' currencies, plenty use the euro without being EU members, and plenty peg their currencies to a big neighbour (most closely, Denmark).

Indeed they do, but if Scotland wants to join the EU I cannot use sterling without a currency union because if they do so, an independent Scotland would technically have no central bank. EU rules stipulate that member-states must have a central bank and so using sterling without a currency union is not an option if Scotland wants to successfully join the EU after voting for independence.

[THE_TITAN]

Plenty of countries use others' currencies, plenty use the euro without being EU members, and plenty peg their currencies to a big neighbour (most closely, Denmark).

Indeed they do, but if Scotland wants to join the EU I cannot use sterling without a currency union because if they do so, an independent Scotland would technically have no central bank. EU rules stipulate that member-states must have a central bank and so using sterling without a currency union is not an option if Scotland wants to successfully join the EU after voting for independence.

It wouldn't technically have no central bank. It could create a central bank that pegs its currency as Ireland did with sterling or as Denmark does with the euro. That may not be the SNP's proposal, but I'm not particularly in the business of supporting their arguments for independence. However, it would be possible to devolve exchange rate policy to the UK/Europe.

You may be right but then what is the point of independence if you are going to keep the same currency but have less powers relating to it? Surely that is a worse situation than if Scotland stays with the United Kingdom?!... I am becoming a bit annoyed at the pick and choose attitude that the SNP seem to have, if they want to become independent then go the whole way stop picking and choosing aspects of the Union that are favourable. If Scotland want to go it alone they will have no help from the UK I can assure you of that, Westminster is being very nice now but if a "yes" vote is passed then the gloves will be off and the niceties out of the window for good.

[THE_TITAN]

I am becoming a bit annoyed at the pick and choose attitude that the SNP seem to have, if they want to become independent then go the whole way stop picking and choosing aspects of the Union that are favourable.

This coming from a UK citizen is SWEET and HILARIOUS.

Hardly, we're not looking to leave it any time soon. As an Englishman I regocnise there are positive and negative aspects to the Union but if the SNP is so hell-bent on independence for Scotland then they should deal with the currency issue, EU etc. by themselves and stop trying to keep the Union systems. If the Union is so negative and bad then why do they want to keep so much of it?

[THE_TITAN]

You don't even realise you are missing the point entirely, do you ? I'm talking about another Union. Think about it.

The EU? I'm in favour of it entirely, so are all three main political parties. If you are talking about the minority off-swing of UKIP and the opinion of the Murdoch press then I hardly think you have a point.

[THE_TITAN]

You don't even realise you are missing the point entirely, do you ? I'm talking about another Union. Think about it.

The EU? I'm in favour of it entirely, so are all three main political parties. If you are talking about the minority off-swing of UKIP and the opinion of the Murdoch press then I hardly think you have a point.

Ironic, given than UK is out of the Euro, out of Schengen...

Interesting, 10 other EU countries are also out of the Eurozone and it hasn't done the UK much harm though I am a Lib Dem and so am in favour of an eventual switch to the Euro at the right time, rather than rushing things which can lead to disaster. The UK is an island unlike other EU countries minus Ireland so the Schengen agreement isn't suitable to say the least.

[THE_TITAN]

The UK is an island unlike other EU countries minus Ireland so the Schengen agreement isn't suitable to say the least.

For the record, Malta and Cyprus are also islands. And Malta is in Schengen. Iceland is also an island, in Schengen, while not being in the EU.

This has nothing to do with anything.

I think you are taking this thread off on a tangent. There is a clear difference between the UK's EU situation and Scottish Independence, most notably all the things you have talked about regarding UK/EU are opt-in scenarios. Scotland isn't opting in to anything, they are leaving the UK because they want to be independent. Picking and choosing when your leaving something is completely different to a situation where you have the choice to opt-in.