After 400 year hiatus Catholicism is once again most popular in England

[Јas]

Wow.. is church attendance really that low - I mean I knew it was miniscule; but less than a million Anglicans? Despite everything I find this hard to believe.

The day is ours.

hate to shake you up, but you really need to visit England.  It is awash in accepting sexual immorality.  So, it doesn't seem to me that is practicing Catholic doctrine.

"For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." (Jude 4)

Shockingly for everyone, Jmfcst is the first to mention "sexual immorality" in this thread.

I think I had Friday in the pool.

[Јas]

hate to shake you up, but you really need to visit England.  It is awash in accepting sexual immorality.  So, it doesn't seem to me that is practicing Catholic doctrine.

"For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." (Jude 4)

Shockingly for everyone, Jmfcst is the first to mention "sexual immorality" in this thread.

yeah, isn't troubling that more posters on this forum don't shun and flee from sexual immorality?

Most posters aren't ultra-right wing fundies maybe?

Well, if that is the definition for those that shun and flee from sexual immorality, then I guess Jesus and all the writers of the bible were "ultra-right wing fundies"...so thanks for the complement, for I definitely want to be in their number.

And here was me thinking Jesus spoke about forgiveness an love and such (not things one tends to associate with 'right wing fundies'). I don't recall him advocating shunning and fleeing much myself (things one does tend to associate with 'right wing fundies').

[Јas]

And here was me thinking Jesus spoke about forgiveness an love and such

yes, that is the "GRACE" part

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I don't recall him advocating shunning and fleeing much myself (things one does tend to associate with 'right wing fundies').

that's because you turn his Grace into a licence for immorality, just as Jude 4 predicted.

"For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." (Jude 4)

Wow, Jude really hit the nail on the head there didn't he. It's amazing that he predicted that at some point in the future, someone might not fully agree with the official line.

Anyway, I don't necessarily agree that this passage really covers the present case: I don't agree that I advocate immorality, but the more pertinant point is that I don't advocate anything on the basis of what God or Jesus said/did/suggested/whatever.

Here is Jesus talking about the sin of sexual immorality:

Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

Mark 7:21
For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,

First, as stated (or at least infered) before, I only directed my remarks about that which is attributed to Jesus, so I'll leave aside St. Paul et al. Given that we have essentially the above which is essentially the same remark (IIRC Matthew's Gospel is largely a copy of Mark's?...anyway, I digress).

With regards to sexual morality, Jesus doesn't give any indication of what's included. I don't deny that there are immoral sexual acts, for all I know Jesus's position could have been in sync with mine or with yours or with neither - who knows?

Nor does Jesus mention shunning or fleeing here. As I recall, Jesus was keen on meeting sinners nor shunning them; certainly not fleeing from them.

All in all, I don't see how the quote supports your position in any way, shape or form.

[Јas]

Jas,

I am not going to argue with you over the shunning of immorality.  If you think Jesus just came to forgive while winking at sin, then so be it.

Luke 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

You're misrepresenting me... again (bearing false witness comes to mind, but howsoever...).
If you review, you'll see that I didn't give any particular interpretation of Jesus's words/actions. You did that.

I merely said that the idea that Jesus was shunning or fleeing from sinners was significantly at variance from my recollection of a man who confronted perceived wrongs rather than (as you suggest) running away from them. I also claimed that the attributed words don't back up your earlier assertion (or indeed come anywhere close) and I stand by that.

Whether you care to challenge that position or not, I don't really care - but FTR petty name calling, twisting of words and such aren't usually the way to convince others of anything. Given how ardently you've tried at this approach with numerous forumites, you should have ample evidence that honest engagement might be a better approach.