Do the rich and powerful "own" both parties?

[Donerail]

They're really the same thing. Tell me this: which party opposes the Bush tax cuts? Which one opposes free trade? Which one want to shrink defense spending? Which ones oppose drones and Guantanamo? Which one opposes the Patriot Act? Which one opposes staying in Afghanistan? Which one will actually balance the budget? Which one actually supports gay marriage (not this states decide stuff)? Which one opposes the War on Drugs? The answer to all these questions is neither; them both being controlled by the same interests is simply a continuation of that.

[Donerail]

They're really the same thing. Tell me this: which party opposes the Bush tax cuts?

the democrats

Then why did it pass the Democratic Senate in 2010 81-19? One would think that if the Democrats opposed it, they could have voted against it...

[Donerail]

They're really the same thing. Tell me this: which party opposes the Bush tax cuts?

the democrats

Then why did it pass the Democratic Senate in 2010 81-19? One would think that if the Democrats opposed it, they could have voted against it...

a temporary extension with unemployment insurance and 'working class tax cuts' is not the same thing as supporting the bush tax cuts. don't confuse caution with support of something. also change the avatar, please. we have enough confused people on this site as it is.

Unemployment insurance was part of it, which was put in as part of a compromise deal which also included extending all EGTRRA and JGTRRA cuts, including cuts to tax rates on the non-working classes. And change the avatar to what? The Constitution Party seems like a bunch of theocrats, Greens seem too hippie-ish, there's no real "Other" I'm that attracted to, I'm not joining the party of Bush, I've been politely asked to leave the Democrats, Natural Law Party is weird, and it's lonely as an independent.

[Donerail]

Natural Law Party is weird

I thought the Natural Law Party was no more since the guru who sponsored decided not to dabble in politics any more.  I know when that happened, the Greens took over the South Carolina party to gain their ballot access.  (South Carolina's ballot access laws make it moderately difficult but not impossible for a new party to get on the ballot, but once on the ballot, it is absurdly easy for them to stay on it, so several minor parties that in other states would have just faded away have instead been taken over so as to gain ballot access in that fashion since its easier.)

I believe a handful of state branches of them are still up and running while the rest have closed down.

They're really the same thing. Tell me this: which party opposes the Bush tax cuts?

the democrats

Then why did it pass the Democratic Senate in 2010 81-19? One would think that if the Democrats opposed it, they could have voted against it...

a temporary extension with unemployment insurance and 'working class tax cuts' is not the same thing as supporting the bush tax cuts. don't confuse caution with support of something. also change the avatar, please. we have enough confused people on this site as it is.

Unemployment insurance was part of it, which was put in as part of a compromise deal which also included extending all EGTRRA and JGTRRA cuts, including cuts to tax rates on the non-working classes. And change the avatar to what? The Constitution Party seems like a bunch of theocrats, Greens seem too hippie-ish, there's no real "Other" I'm that attracted to, I'm not joining the party of Bush, I've been politely asked to leave the Democrats, Natural Law Party is weird, and it's lonely as an independent.

you're not a 'right libertarian.' and trust me i don't fit into any political party in the us regardless of what i'm registered as.

I'm not, but it's closer to me than anything else. At least I agree on social and foreign policy, which is more than I can say for the other parties.

Which one opposes staying in Afghanistan? Which one will actually balance the budget? Which one actually supports gay marriage (not this states decide stuff)?

Democrats. And they'd do the other stuff too, if they weren't spineless cowards.

We're still in Afghanistan, we still have trillion-dollar-deficits, and

Which one actually supports gay marriage (not this states decide stuff)?

[Donerail]

Which one opposes staying in Afghanistan? Which one will actually balance the budget? Which one actually supports gay marriage (not this states decide stuff)?

Democrats. And they'd do the other stuff too, if they weren't spineless cowards.

We're still in Afghanistan, we still have trillion-dollar-deficits, and

Which one actually supports gay marriage (not this states decide stuff)?

We're on track to leave Afghanistan, which Bush didn't do, and may I remind you that the last president to balance the budget was Clinton?
[/quote]

On track to, eventually, in a few more years, we're getting there, is not an acceptable answer for people who want our troops home now. And Clinton balanced the budget, and our current President expanded it; my point was that neither of them have consistently balanced the budget (one guy you get a balanced budget, next one from the same party you get trillion dollar deficits).