MN Sen Recount (UPDATE: Stuart Smalley certified winner, lawsuit forthcoming)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The Democrats could just get the 60th seat from an Obama state (Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire all come to mind.)

[Lunar]

The Democrats could just get the 60th seat from an Obama state (Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire all come to mind.)

Regardless, not all voters in these states, especially Independents who favor Obama, necessarily want Obama to have a "blank check"

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Won't matter if the GOP manages to seriously botch a seat, like they've done every election since 2004. Imagine for example if Voinovich retires and the GOP nominates Ken Blackwell to replace him.

[Lunar]

Won't matter if the GOP manages to seriously botch a seat, like they've done every election since 2004. Imagine for example if Voinovich retires and the GOP nominates Ken Blackwell to replace him.

What are you talking about?  I'm not talking about the Dems making it to 60 or not (they probably will), but rather that 59/60 threshold existing coming into 2010 making it tougher for the Democrats overall.  It's sort of a paradox that it might be easier to go from 60 to 61 or 58 to 71 than to go from 59 to 60/61.

That "blank check" argument might scare Sebelius and Henry from running.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Stop depressing me, Lunar.

As a Democrat, I didn't want him to win either. 

Yeah, you're some Democrat.

Lunar is a Democrat like Mint is a Democrat.

[Mr.Phips]

Talking about preventing total Democratic dominance of the Senate should play really well in a midterm year.  Midterm voters aren't geniuses, but they're much smarter about politics than your average 2008 voter.

Talk about filibusters will be all over Fox News and the usual GOP outlets, so one would imagine that Republicans will understand the stakes.  Take a look at an internal poll sometime—these kinds of arguements work surprisingly well with politically interested Indy voters. 

This didnt work for Democrats in 2002. 

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Stop depressing me, Lunar.

As a Democrat, I didn't want him to win either. 

Yeah, you're some Democrat.

Lunar is a Democrat like Mint is a Democrat.

At least Lunar votes for Democrats.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Stop depressing me, Lunar.

As a Democrat, I didn't want him to win either. 

Yeah, you're some Democrat.

Lunar is a Democrat like Mint is a Democrat.

At least Lunar votes for Democrats.

Indeed.

I think NDN/Mint voted for McCain mostly because he's uncomfortable with actually going along with the majority and ended up voting against Obama because of the large following he garnered.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Stop depressing me, Lunar.

As a Democrat, I didn't want him to win either. 

Yeah, you're some Democrat.

Ah, I'm a pit more forward looking than some other Democrats.

I think it's better for our party to be at 58 than 59 senators, and I think Franken is unappealing to a lot of people we're trying to reach out to.

Maybe I'm a bit of a pragmatist, but worthy of snarky comments?  Fssssh

Coleman is trying to have legitimate votes not count. Any real Democrat has had enough of election stealing Republicans. There's nothing pragmatic about supporting Senators. And why the hell should the Republicans get 42 seats? So that they can force the country to be hard right instead of center right? Let's face it, a lot of those 56 or 57 "Democrats" are basically Republicans, anyways. We don't need 42 Republicans when we have Ben Nelson, Landrieu, Pryor or other horrible people in our party. BTW, Sanders and Lieberman are not Democrats, although the former is better than any Democrat.

Meanwhile, you pretend to be concerned that Caroline Kennedy might not support the Democratic nominee for NYC Mayor in 2009. 

[justfollowingtheelections]

Stop depressing me, Lunar.

As a Democrat, I didn't want him to win either. 

Yeah, you're some Democrat.

Ah, I'm a pit more forward looking than some other Democrats.

I think it's better for our party to be at 58 than 59 senators, and I think Franken is unappealing to a lot of people we're trying to reach out to.

Maybe I'm a bit of a pragmatist, but worthy of snarky comments?  Fssssh

Forward looking?  No way man.  Keeping the seat for 6 years is what's most important.  Any seat is a good seat.  The fear of 60 will be just as big for the Republicans whether the Dems have 58 or 59 seats.  Franken will probably be a good senator too.

[Lunar]

Well, I guess we disagree.  Like I've said, I've read his books and I  think I understand a bit of how he thinks.

But he's an unappealing figurehead of Democrats and someone prone to general embarrassment or outbursts or other silliness that could catch onto news cycles.

But whatevsky, we'll probably disagree on his effectiveness towards accomplishing a national Democratic agenda, but could we at leasts agree that if Coleman appeared to have "stolen" this election - it would have helped Democrat activism for 2010 and onwards?

[Lief 🗽]

I think the idea that more than a handful of people are going to not vote for Democrats because the Senator from Minnesota is Al Franken is silly. No matter what, the Republicans are going to try and turn our politicians into boogeymen. We shouldn't surrender seats to them because we're scared they'll throw a fit. In two years, no one is going to care that Franken is the Senator from Minnesota instead of Coleman.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Is Franken any crazier than Inhofe? Does Inhofe scare away potential Republican voters?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Well, I guess we disagree.  Like I've said, I've read his books and I  think I understand a bit of how he thinks.

But he's an unappealing figurehead of Democrats and someone prone to general embarrassment or outbursts or other silliness that could catch onto news cycles.

But whatevsky, we'll probably disagree on his effectiveness towards accomplishing a national Democratic agenda, but could we at leasts agree that if Coleman appeared to have "stolen" this election - it would have helped Democrat activism for 2010 and onwards?

Oh yeah, the Democrats did awesome in 2002 after everyone knew Bush stole the 2000 election. Anyways, obviously you personally dislike Franken, but that's probably because he's not right-wing enough for a right-winger like you.

[Ronnie]

Well, I guess we disagree.  Like I've said, I've read his books and I  think I understand a bit of how he thinks.

But he's an unappealing figurehead of Democrats and someone prone to general embarrassment or outbursts or other silliness that could catch onto news cycles.

But whatevsky, we'll probably disagree on his effectiveness towards accomplishing a national Democratic agenda, but could we at leasts agree that if Coleman appeared to have "stolen" this election - it would have helped Democrat activism for 2010 and onwards?

Oh yeah, the Democrats did awesome in 2002 after everyone knew Bush stole the 2000 election. Anyways, obviously you personally dislike Franken, but that's probably because he's not right-wing enough for a right-winger like you.

I don't think your definition of "right wing" matters to anyone on this forum but you, 'ol Jfern.

[Rococo4]

I think the idea that more than a handful of people are going to not vote for Democrats because the Senator from Minnesota is Al Franken is silly. No matter what, the Republicans are going to try and turn our politicians into boogeymen. We shouldn't surrender seats to them because we're scared they'll throw a fit. In two years, no one is going to care that Franken is the Senator from Minnesota instead of Coleman.

oh, ill still care

[Iosif]

If Franken wins I'm going to become a Republican because he may or may not have groped my aunt in the New York subway 3 decades ago.

[Lunar]

If Franken wins I'm going to become a Republican because he may or may not have groped my aunt in the New York subway 3 decades ago.

It's not like there's any difference between a Republican-voting independent and a Republican.  It's merely a superficial & aesthetic change, I don't see why not.  I also suspect Sam has other, less personal reasons, for his move as well.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What's amusing is this is really yet another victory for Nate Silver. Sure he wasn't exactly dead-on with his 27 votes projection, but was closer than anyone who mocked him for it and predicted a Coleman victory. (Remember his projection wasn't including the absentees) Republicans can keep bashing the guy but until he majorly flubs something they'll be the ones with egg on their faces.

[Alcon]

What's amusing is this is really yet another victory for Nate Silver. Sure he wasn't exactly dead-on with his 27 votes projection, but was closer than anyone who mocked him for it and predicted a Coleman victory. (Remember his projection wasn't including the absentees) Republicans can keep bashing the guy but until he majorly flubs something they'll be the ones with egg on their faces.

What was the result without absentees?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What's amusing is this is really yet another victory for Nate Silver. Sure he wasn't exactly dead-on with his 27 votes projection, but was closer than anyone who mocked him for it and predicted a Coleman victory. (Remember his projection wasn't including the absentees) Republicans can keep bashing the guy but until he majorly flubs something they'll be the ones with egg on their faces.

What was the result without absentees?

Franken +48

[Wiz in Wis]

The state canvassing board, after some housekeeping, has given Franken a 50 vote tenative lead now, pending the rejected absentees.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28435298/

I really don't see any possibile way Coleman wins this now. How could a court overturn this election? neither candidate has a clear win, and Coleman has been dubious in his requests at best.

[Saxwsylvania]

What's amusing is this is really yet another victory for Nate Silver. Sure he wasn't exactly dead-on with his 27 votes projection, but was closer than anyone who mocked him for it and predicted a Coleman victory. (Remember his projection wasn't including the absentees) Republicans can keep bashing the guy but until he majorly flubs something they'll be the ones with egg on their faces.

Amusingly, Nate Silver's track record is only good when it comes to predicting Democratic victories. Remember, Silver predicted a Jim Martin victory.  It would have been hilarious to see the hack Silver predict 2002 and 2004.

[Lunar]

He NEVER predicted a Jim Martin victory, on election night or otherwise, WTF?

[emailking]

He NEVER predicted a Jim Martin victory, on election night or otherwise, WTF?

Correct. As I recall he thought it would be close with Obama turnout and said he wouldn't be surprised if Martin won. That's not predicting a Martin victory.