Barack Obama vs: JFK

[RaphaelDLG]

I'm too ignorant about JFK, but I think that Obama is way overrated by libs, JFK is overrated by the average joe for being handsome and dying. 

I kind of want to say Obama just because they were both centrist economically and Obama was President longer, but I don't know how to evaluate the importance of JFK's contributions to foreign policy.  Abstain.

[RaphaelDLG]

Obama (I/O)

Progressives and liberals really need to actually examine what kind of politician JFK was before putting him in because "muh greatness!"  I am not one of those idiots who think he ran to Nixon's right in 1960 but he was far from a principled liberal and was a textbook example of a political panderer.  Yes, Obama did that quite a bit in his career, but at least he had a (mostly) consistent worldview of things and took on unpopular causes.  JFK's career consisted of blatant pandering to Taft Republicans over the TVA and anti-Communism, flipflopping over what to do in Southeast Asia, and trying to come out as the least offensive candidate to Dixiecratic segregationalists right before running for office in 1960.  Say what you want about Barack Obama but I'm sure he hasn't taken such extreme leaps of inconsistency as JFK did to get elected.

And even after he got elected he wasn't exactly a solid liberal either.  It took him two years to act on the Civil Rights issue and he did some real shady things in Cuba.  Sure, I know "judge them in the context of their times" but people were pointing this out about JFK during his own time.  I think that's quite valid to bring up.

Hello hello hello?  Is there anybody in there?  Just nod if you can hear me; is there anyone at all?!?

[RaphaelDLG]

I'm not so keen on him, but I'll go with Jack Kennedy here.

Obama: more accomplishments in office and, more important, is a more honorable person. No scandals at all, he’s a decent human being. JFK had personal weaknesses.

I would challenge you on what exactly he's done, (other than a continuation of prior administrations' habit of expanding executive authority) but more importantly, it helps when you aren't killed less than 2 years into your presidency.

Stimulus
ACA
Dodd-Frank
Bin laden
Iraq withdrawal
Afghanistan surge
Iran nuclear neal
TPP
Race to the Top
Normalizing relations with Cuba

Now, I don't like a lot or even many of those, but you can't say he was totally unproductive.

But muh salty fox news comment weak kneed liberal who hates america and grows government muh

[RaphaelDLG]

Though Kennedy's historical status as this "conservative" Democrat who'd be a Republican today among far righties is just as ridiculous as Democratic hacks who claim the opposite about Eisenhower, I'll take JFK.

True but he was more conservative than any other 20th century and beyond Democratic President except probably Clinton. Obama.

Not really. Before you ask me to name a more conservative Democratic President post-1900, I say Woodrow Wilson. Also, Harry Truman was certainly more of a foreign policy hawk. Lyndon Johnson was far more socially conservative, at least personally, and more personally despicable.

It's really so hard to say who is "more conservative," because there are so many axes, like dove vs hawk (Johnson was obviously really conservative on this dimension), social market vs laissez-faire (the modern democrats are fairly conservative here), traditional vs progressive (obviously all of the recent democrats are much, much more progressive on race and gender).