SUPERIMPERIALIST AMERICA ERA TWO: Two Paths

[Bacon King]

Great update Harry! The electoral vote is really small and I can't read how many Schwarzenegger got. Hopefully you'll be able to fix that map soon because Ecuador, Puerto and Bolivia look kinda lumpy for some reason.

More soon!

This was Jedi's 7777th post. And 7's are good luck. Therefore, it is good luck to update this. Keep doing it!

[jokerman]

Great Work, Harry

[MasterJedi]

The EV count looked funny to me yesterday and I checked to make sure.

In 2012 there were a total of 4389 EV's together and since Ecuador entered and you gave them 11 EV's there should be 4400 EV's.

Now in 2016 I added them up and I got 4100 EV's, 300 short. This is unless I read the EV count on the map wrong because it's so small. I got 1911 for Tong and 2189 for Arnold.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

This timeline is ASB(alien space bats. This is what we in the AH community call an impossible timeline). This is for several reasons.

1 The largest america could ever get would be the addition of canada, mexico, the central american states, the carribean, the phillipines and maybe liberia(this isn't too likely though). The race issue would prevent the US from any imperialism in africa(the only reason I think liberia is possible). The US wouldn't annex black pagan areas or asian pagan areas. The only other african areas I could see the US snapping up besides liberia woudl be the boer republics(ruled by white dutchmen). Other than the lsited territories the only other things I could see america realistically picking up are borneo, new guinea and part of siveria.

2 Putting political figures from our timeline and not doing cultural/eocnomic/social divergences? WTF?

[MasterJedi]

This timeline is ASB(alien space bats. This is what we in the AH community call an impossible timeline). This is for several reasons.

Then read it as a story and don't complain.

[7,052,770]

This timeline is ASB(alien space bats. This is what we in the AH community call an impossible timeline). This is for several reasons.

1 The largest america could ever get would be the addition of canada, mexico, the central american states, the carribean, the phillipines and maybe liberia(this isn't too likely though). The race issue would prevent the US from any imperialism in africa(the only reason I think liberia is possible). The US wouldn't annex black pagan areas or asian pagan areas. The only other african areas I could see the US snapping up besides liberia woudl be the boer republics(ruled by white dutchmen). Other than the lsited territories the only other things I could see america realistically picking up are borneo, new guinea and part of siveria.

2 Putting political figures from our timeline and not doing cultural/eocnomic/social divergences? WTF?

yeah, it's not really attempting to be realistic.  It's just a story.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

I didn't say it sucked I just said its not likely.

[Archangel_Mikey]

This timeline is ASB(alien space bats. This is what we in the AH community call an impossible timeline). This is for several reasons.

Then read it as a story and don't complain.

Not a very plausible TL, but an entertaining one.

Nice but short update.  How long until the U.S. controls the world?

[Defarge]

I love these things

[Kevinstat]

Harry,

You may have forgotten about this with all the time that has past, but I thought you were eventually going to do a different path starting from your Era One ATL in 1992.  Maybe my interpretation of the "two paths" was wrong, or maybe you changed your mind about that.  I thought I remember your first post on this Era Two thread initially starting a "Path One", but that is no longer there now (and your last edit to that post was within a month of making the post) and I may have looked at your "ERA TWO" and saw "PATH ONE" (of two) in my mind.  I had thought perhaps the second path would have the America eventually shedding off states and collapsing into pre-1801 America or something like that.  I guess you could do that in this timeline here, but you may not feel like doing that.

Keep up the good work, at whatever pace is best for you.  Most of us here are young and have decades of reading stuff like this ahead of us.  I wonder if this forum or a clear successor thereof will still be around in 20 years or even 10 (or even 50, going the other way).  The internet as we currently know it could seem like pre-printing press communication by then.  Who knows?

Sincerely,

Kevin Lamoreau

[MasterJedi]

We need an update Harry!

[MasterJedi]

Come on Harry, you can't leave us hanging!

[TomC]

Yes. Yes, he can.

[MasterJedi]

Yes. Yes, he can.

And he is but he shouldn't. There's really no excuse because he did say he worked a lot on it right after he made the last update.

[Bacon King]

update, harry!

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Don't update. O if you do update start a timeline that isn't this side of ASB.

[Colin]

Don't update. O if you do update start a timeline that isn't this side of ASB.

True. Ameri-wank is about as typical as Coca-Cola.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Don't update. O if you do update start a timeline that isn't this side of ASB.

True. Ameri-wank is about as typical as Coca-Cola.

And usually uninteresting and bland. I may lean towards using larger americas but I at least make them more interesting.

[Colin]

Don't update. O if you do update start a timeline that isn't this side of ASB.

True. Ameri-wank is about as typical as Coca-Cola.

And usually uninteresting and bland. I may lean towards using larger americas but I at least make them more interesting.

Well if you're going to make something wank make it interesting. You know something I haven't ever seen? An interesting and well thought out Argentina-wank scenario. I think its possible and it would be loads of fun.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Don't update. O if you do update start a timeline that isn't this side of ASB.

True. Ameri-wank is about as typical as Coca-Cola.

And usually uninteresting and bland. I may lean towards using larger americas but I at least make them more interesting.

Well if you're going to make something wank make it interesting. You know something I haven't ever seen? An interesting and well thought out Argentina-wank scenario. I think its possible and it would be loads of fun.

It is very possible and OTL is pretty much the worst possible realistic outcome for argentina. I coudl easilly see a TL where we have a first world argentina with 70 million people without it even remotely hitting argentina-wank levels. As for a bigger, beefier argentina? I'm afraid I'm at a lost. Argentina still in our borders but first world and richer I can easilly do but not a full blown argentina-wank.

[Colin]

Don't update. O if you do update start a timeline that isn't this side of ASB.

True. Ameri-wank is about as typical as Coca-Cola.

And usually uninteresting and bland. I may lean towards using larger americas but I at least make them more interesting.

Well if you're going to make something wank make it interesting. You know something I haven't ever seen? An interesting and well thought out Argentina-wank scenario. I think its possible and it would be loads of fun.

It is very possible and OTL is pretty much the worst possible realistic outcome for argentina. I coudl easilly see a TL where we have a first world argentina with 70 million people without it even remotely hitting argentina-wank levels. As for a bigger, beefier argentina? I'm afraid I'm at a lost. Argentina still in our borders but first world and richer I can easilly do but not a full blown argentina-wank.

Yeah that's about as wanky as you can get but that's still alot better.

You are absolutely right though Argetina in OTL is probably as bad as it can be in any timeline. Everything went wrong for that country from its beginning. I could see Argentina taking over Chile and Uruguay and possibly parts of Rio Grande Do Sul and other parts of Southern Brazil. But yeah a larger more sucessful Argentina is a very interesting scenario.

More interesting would be to replace nations. Have Argentina become a first world superpower by 2000 and the United States a poorer nation, part of the developing world, that has gone through many dictatorships and military governments. I've always thought you could do something like this by making the Business Plot successful in the US while having guys like Mitre and Yrigoyen in Argentina more pro-industry and less export oriented and having the government of Yrigoyen successfully stop the government overthrow by the military in 1932.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Way, way too late. If you want south america to replace North America as the center of power you have to do the following

1 Have the US start cutting off immigration after 1848

2 Have the brazillian monarchy get enough of a shock to the system(1848 reovlutions spread to the new world maybe?) to force real reform so we get earlier reforms.

3 Have the 1848 revolutions spread to the southern cone and force changes

The result of all this is a richer, more industrialized and much stronger Brazil, Argentina, uruguay and Chile and a much poorer, less industrialized and more agrarian(more vulnerable to economic shocks) United States. Such a US would be prone to coups anytime from 1870 to 1900(in that period we had period mini-depressions; basically short sharp crashes) and be more likely to go over the edge into despotism of the right/left in the 1930s. You can get your prosperous southern cone/poorer america idea but you just need an earlier POD.

[Colin]

Way, way too late. If you want south america to replace North America as the center of power you have to do the following

1 Have the US start cutting off immigration after 1848

2 Have the brazillian monarchy get enough of a shock to the system(1848 reovlutions spread to the new world maybe?) to force real reform so we get earlier reforms.

3 Have the 1848 revolutions spread to the southern cone and force changes

The result of all this is a richer, more industrialized and much stronger Brazil, Argentina, uruguay and Chile and a much poorer, less industrialized and more agrarian(more vulnerable to economic shocks) United States. Such a US would be prone to coups anytime from 1870 to 1900(in that period we had period mini-depressions; basically short sharp crashes) and be more likely to go over the edge into despotism of the right/left in the 1930s. You can get your prosperous southern cone/poorer america idea but you just need an earlier POD.

I don't even want a stronger South America, it can remain a sh**thole like now, I'm just talking about Argentina though if I was going to actually play out a scenario like that I would basically go back to 1810 or so.

Do you think that if the British had taken over the Rio De La Plata during the Napoleanic Wars and had kept them that would create a better lasting effect for the area we now know as Argentina?

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Yes. I see Argentina being a bilingual english/spanish speaking canada clone with severe illegal immigration issues from its north and west.

[Platypus]

A federal system could work. Say 12 states: Paraguay (inc. Missiones), Rio Grande del Sur, Uruguay, Entre Rios (inc. Corrientes) , Buenos Aires, Patagonia (TdF, Santa Cruz, Chubut, Rio Negro, Chile south of Chiloe), Cuyo (Mendoza, San Juan, Nuequen), Las Pampas (San Luis, Las Pampas, Cordoba), Gran Chaco (Chaco, Formosa, Santa Fe, Santiago del Estero), Norte-oeste (La Rioja, Catamarca, Tucuman, Salta, Jujuy), Chile (Chiloe and north to the Atacama...basically pre-Pacific war border), and...maybe Mato Grosso? Bolivia? TdF, Malvinas and Antarctica? Anyway. It can move beyond present boundaries easily enough.