Europe-Middle East-Africa Refugee Crisis General Thread

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Oh wow.

Maybe its time to consider at least temporarily stepping away from your keyboards gentlemen?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

...how would that help exactly? I mean in the context of the specific horrifying news of today.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

... by preventing future such tragedies.

How?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Well Islam and Islamism are quite different, the latter being a political ideology. And there's Islamism and then there's Islamism. But, hey, Irish Republicanism was clearly 'a problem' in Britain in the 70s/80s/90s: this did not mean that the Irish population over here was also 'a problem'.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Anyway, most our Muslims came over in the 60s and 70s (most 'immigration' from the Subcontinent subsequently has been back and forth stuff within family units) and from our former Empire to boot. The main exceptions to that are the Kurds* and the Somalis, who you won't meet unless you live in one of the sketchier parts of London. The bloody immigrants that people who aren't being overt racists tend to whine about are Polish or Portuguese (although most people can't tell the difference) and so on. Of course one of the largest groups of migrants (foreign students) are basically 100% anonymous (like even to most people who live in university cities) except to the extent that they inflate the overall migration figures.

_{*As Cyprus was once 'ours' as well the Turkish Cypriots don't 'count' in that sense.}

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The position of the Cameron government on this has been predictably loathsome. And pathetic.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Cameron has caved... a little bit. Better than nothing I suppose. Curiously it was Yvette Cooper got the political pressure ball rolling; will that have an impact on the leadership election I wonder? Even if it is very late in the day now. But that's for another thread.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Oh wow. I... um... oh wow. Consider taking a valium or something...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

This is the end of Europe as we know it. Get ready to say goodbye to the continent of the Renaissance and the Enlightenment. In 60 years or so Europe, save for its eastern fringes, will be what Syria is today.

Seventy years ago Europe had just played host to both the worst war and the worst crime in history. And we did that all by our little white selves.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Don't worry, they are seeing it. But they are leading Europe into the abyss with their eyes wide open. In their quest to transform Europe into an impoverished wasteland like Syria and Africa ...

Tender, you're starting to sound like a Nazi and that's not a good look for an Austrian.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A very relevant video

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Sibboleth's replies are pretty illustrative for the tactics on the emotional side of the debate. If one doesn't think it is good for Germany to take in a whopping 800,000 immigrants, 1% of its population, then one must be a nazi.

Did I make this argument? Let's see... wait... no... it appears that I didn't.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

maybe he's gay, or insufficiently muslim, or who knows what else. there are plenty of different reasons why a pakistani person might need asylum. (not that you'll care, most likely, being the gross bigot that you are)

Yes, it isn't exactly a happy country at present. Christian would be another possibility, of course, or a member of one of the less popular Muslim sects. And LOL at the idea that this guy could go to India. That's dark.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Look, I don't actually think that everyone with a view different to mine on this is a racist or as good as a Nazi (although for what are ultimately religious reasons this is an issue that I can't really bring myself to exactly respect such views either) and if I've made a toxic thread worse then I apologise, but those comments were beyond the pale. Or, rather, were flirting dangerously around its border with a real risk of accidentally crossing it. And terrible things can happen when that ideological border is crossed. Take a step back and read what you (and if you are a 'you' here then you know you are) wrote.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Except that the Hungarian government has made it pretty clear that refugees are not welcome. And while its true that a refugee does not have an inherent right to pick where they end up, its entirely understandable that there's an overwhelming towards trying to get to somewhere where they assume they will be safest/most welcome/etc.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Mostly I think you'll find that the refugees have been fleeing from the war in general, as is generally the case. The sheer murderous psychopathy of ISIS adds an extra couple of push factors (anyone denying this/that this is a factor wrt those currently leaving needs to be pushed off a cliff), but it isn't as though there weren't good reasons to get the hell out before...