Military Vote

[JSojourner]

Did anyone post the military vote results yet? 

[Alcon]

Military vote in what sense?

Obama did quite well on most bases vs. Kerry in 2004, but generally lost them.

[JSojourner]

Military vote in what sense?

Obama did quite well on most bases vs. Kerry in 2004, but generally lost them.

That's about what I meant, Al.  That and military absentees from abroad. 

[Alcon]

Military vote in what sense?

Obama did quite well on most bases vs. Kerry in 2004, but generally lost them.

That's about what I meant, Al.  That and military absentees from abroad. 

I've only looked at Washington extensively, and these are the only ones I have off-hand.  I'll try to get some other states soon.

Fairchild AFB (Spokane): McCain +32 (was Bush +56)
Ford Lewis AB (Tacoma): Obama +3 (was Bush +19)
McChord AFB (Tacoma): McCain +24 (was Bush +45)

The last two are early results and have likely moved 3-4 points GOP.  But still...

Of course, there's a lot of registration issues (many register elsewhere but don't vote) and this includes on-base family members.  But, with those considerations, big swings.  I think Obama appealed better attitudinally to military people -- who do vote for reasons beyond foreign policy after all.

John Kerry was, um, probably not their kind of people.

[nclib]

The largest swing in NC was Cumberland, where Fayetteville and Fort Bragg are located. In fact, Obama won it by 18%. Even though the county is 38% black, I imagine Obama had to pick up a sizeable percent of the white vote on Fort Bragg.

[minionofmidas]

I think that may be about the only demographic where turnout really was way down. Bush gov't made a giant effort to cart all soldiers to the polls in 2004.

[Person Man]

I guess this sort of reflects the rebuke of the neo-con movement. Then again, I wonder why I neo-con did so poorly against a lib in the Military vote.

[phk]

I guess this sort of reflects the rebuke of the neo-con movement. Then again, I wonder why I neo-con did so poorly against a lib in the Military vote.

McCain is not a neocon and most people who serve in the military aren't either.

[Stranger in a strange land]

I guess this sort of reflects the rebuke of the neo-con movement. Then again, I wonder why I neo-con did so poorly against a lib in the Military vote.

McCain is not a neocon and most people who serve in the military aren't either.

yes he is.

Though as to why the military would have swung to Obama, the fact that it's heavy with youth and minorities would probably be a major factor.

[minionofmidas]

Fairchild AFB (Spokane): McCain +32 (was Bush +56)
Ford Lewis AB (Tacoma): Obama +3 (was Bush +19)
McChord AFB (Tacoma): McCain +24 (was Bush +45)

Air Force far more Conservative than Army? Is that a pattern that holds nationwide? It would make sense to me.
If so, how does the Navy compare?

[Sbane]

Fairchild AFB (Spokane): McCain +32 (was Bush +56)
Ford Lewis AB (Tacoma): Obama +3 (was Bush +19)
McChord AFB (Tacoma): McCain +24 (was Bush +45)

Air Force far more Conservative than Army? Is that a pattern that holds nationwide? It would make sense to me.
If so, how does the Navy compare?

Makes sense. The Air force is heavily infiltrated with evangelicals I do believe or perhaps that is only a Colorado springs phenomenon. The Army has more young, lower class members who very heavily voted democrat this year. Also not sure if the army is much more heavily minority than the other branches. Btw anyone know how the marines at Camp pendelton voted?

[MODU]

I guess this sort of reflects the rebuke of the neo-con movement. Then again, I wonder why I neo-con did so poorly against a lib in the Military vote.

McCain is not a neocon and most people who serve in the military aren't either.

yes he is.

Goldmine material.

[Stranger in a strange land]

I guess this sort of reflects the rebuke of the neo-con movement. Then again, I wonder why I neo-con did so poorly against a lib in the Military vote.

McCain is not a neocon and most people who serve in the military aren't either.

yes he is.

Goldmine material.

Why? McCain's actions, statements, and voting record clearly show that he's a neoconservative, or at very least heavily influenced by them. He has long supported SDI, he voted for both Gulf Wars and Kosovo, he's been a loud and consistent advocate of the War in Iraq, he sang a song about bombing Iran, he's an avowed Russophobe, opposes peace talks between Israel and Syria, won't commit to a two-state solution, won't negotiate with foreign leaders opposed to American interests, and carries this policy so far he wouldn't even commit to meeting with the PM of Spain.

[MODU]

McCain was never an interventionist, though he's always been a nationalist.  Defending Kuwait (an ally) isn't a neocon position, since there were many democrats who also supported the Gulf War.  SDI was a national self-defense program, which isn't neoconservative.  Kosovo was a NATO exercise in order to bring peace to the region and stop the triggering of a much larger war.  NATO was to administer a ceasefire and protect the peace.  I don't think you would call Bill Clinton a neocon.  The Iran song was a joke and not a policy position.  If by Russophobe you mean he's against Russia, I believe you could say most politicians are with the exception of Bush.  Israel/Syria was more of an issue about Lebanon than peace between the two nations.  McCain did not say that he was against peace talks, but that he wasn't supportive of them either.  However, there is no way the US could stop peace talks from happening if the two nations chose to do so.  Not committing on a two-state solution is the opposite of being an interventionist, isn't it?  And not negotiating with foreign leaders who disagree with us is now neocon as well?

No, McCain isn't a neocon.  He's just a plain ol' nationalist like we had back in the 50s and 60s.

[Person Man]

The only real difference from Nationalists and Neo-cons is not really policy, but the reasons for such policy. The second Iraq war is definately a neo-con position. The support for the first was simply an interventionalist position.

Not committing on a two-state solution is the opposite of being an interventionist, isn't it?  And not negotiating with foreign leaders who disagree with us is now neocon as well?
Yes and yes. It shows that you are more interested in propagating your ideology and than promoting national security. So, in a sense, it is very Trotskyite. Making sure that Israel has the ability to hold on to its most productive and historical territories isn't Trotskyite though...it just is common sense to give arms-length support to a strong trade ally with Europe, which is a strong trade ally with us. Also, it allows to help keep the Middle East divided.

[Stranger in a strange land]

McCain was never an interventionist, though he's always been a nationalist.  Defending Kuwait (an ally) isn't a neocon position, since there were many democrats who also supported the Gulf War.  SDI was a national self-defense program, which isn't neoconservative.  Kosovo was a NATO exercise in order to bring peace to the region and stop the triggering of a much larger war.  NATO was to administer a ceasefire and protect the peace.  I don't think you would call Bill Clinton a neocon.  The Iran song was a joke and not a policy position.  If by Russophobe you mean he's against Russia, I believe you could say most politicians are with the exception of Bush.  Israel/Syria was more of an issue about Lebanon than peace between the two nations.  McCain did not say that he was against peace talks, but that he wasn't supportive of them either.  However, there is no way the US could stop peace talks from happening if the two nations chose to do so.  Not committing on a two-state solution is the opposite of being an interventionist, isn't it?  And not negotiating with foreign leaders who disagree with us is now neocon as well?

No, McCain isn't a neocon.  He's just a plain ol' nationalist like we had back in the 50s and 60s.

Not everybody who holds some of the above views is a neocon, but all are consistent with neoconservative ideology. And I forgot to mention his idea of a league of Democracies, which is consistent with neoconservatism as well. Don't like insitutions? That's okay, create new ones!

[Person Man]

McCain was never an interventionist, though he's always been a nationalist.  Defending Kuwait (an ally) isn't a neocon position, since there were many democrats who also supported the Gulf War.  SDI was a national self-defense program, which isn't neoconservative.  Kosovo was a NATO exercise in order to bring peace to the region and stop the triggering of a much larger war.  NATO was to administer a ceasefire and protect the peace.  I don't think you would call Bill Clinton a neocon.  The Iran song was a joke and not a policy position.  If by Russophobe you mean he's against Russia, I believe you could say most politicians are with the exception of Bush.  Israel/Syria was more of an issue about Lebanon than peace between the two nations.  McCain did not say that he was against peace talks, but that he wasn't supportive of them either.  However, there is no way the US could stop peace talks from happening if the two nations chose to do so.  Not committing on a two-state solution is the opposite of being an interventionist, isn't it?  And not negotiating with foreign leaders who disagree with us is now neocon as well?

No, McCain isn't a neocon.  He's just a plain ol' nationalist like we had back in the 50s and 60s.

Not everybody who holds some of the above views is a neocon, but all are consistent with neoconservative ideology. And I forgot to mention his idea of a league of Democracies, which is consistent with neoconservatism as well. Don't like insitutions? That's okay, create new ones!

That's VERY neo-conservative.