Opinion on Efficient referenda amendment

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Yeah, good point. One of the advantages of the present system is that it at least allows (quite imperfectly) the possibility that a discussion gets started before all of the regions start voting. That word "immediately" is a problem.

This is why we cannot leave the Senate, shua.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Its failing right now.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I recommend if you have serious concerns about this amendment, then I suggest you make them known, publically and fast before the ayes come streaming in and it gets too late to do anything about it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Not exactly. A region could delay their voting to allow for discussion if they wanted to. Or kill a flawed amendment by not holding the vote at all and force the Senate to try again. That is all gone now in this amendment, including that critical quality control aspect that was used at least twice that I recall.


The only problem was this system was inactive Governors, a problem we don't seem to have right now anyway. Aside from that, I see no motivation for doing this since it is the most desirable situation that a REGIONAL RATIFICATION booth be administered by the regions. It is not nor should it ever be a federal referendum, which implies a single nationwide, majority gets to f you, vote. The name itself is flawed as well.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Not exactly. A region could delay their voting to allow for discussion if they wanted to. Or kill a flawed amendment by not holding the vote at all and force the Senate to try again. That is all gone now, including that critical quality control aspect that was used at least twice that I recall.

Wait, are you defending the previous version because governors could have simply decided not to open a voting booth??? This is not democratic.
And no debates have ever been held about constitutional amendments before.

Actually there were some discussion threads or in the thread I created to inform the public and regions about the vote. With this there is no thread, because there is no one to inform. A memo is sent from the legislative brance to the SoFE and a vote is immediately held.

Since the abolishment of the ilikeverinship in the Midwest, all the Governors are democratically elected. If the region support the amendment, they can vote out the Governor in favor of one who does.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It is for the regions to decide. The South's citizens don't even get to vote on these amendments at all right now. Something I disagreed with, but it is what our elected officials and the region decided to pursue and it is within their right to make it a decision of the legislature. I don't want the Feds coming in here and correcting it for us. We should change it ourselves.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It is for the regions to decide. The South's citizens don't even get to vote on these amendments at all right now. Something I disagreed with, but it is what our elected officials and the region decided to pursue and it is within their right to make it a decision of the legislature. I don't want the Feds coming in here and correcting it for us. We should change it ourselves.

And this amendment doesn't change the IDS system. The Imperial legislature will still have to vote on the amendment even if the efficient referenda amendment passes.

And you already know that because you were a member of the senate when the effcient referenda amendment...

You missed my point. The point is we cannot vote on them (which increases your chances of getting this passed by the way) but I don't seek a Federal remedy to that because it is not their job to fix that. Regional Ratification Booths are a regional responsibility.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Yea I wasn't intending to imply that this amendment changed that specifically.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It is for the regions to decide. The South's citizens don't even get to vote on these amendments at all right now. Something I disagreed with, but it is what our elected officials and the region decided to pursue and it is within their right to make it a decision of the legislature. I don't want the Feds coming in here and correcting it for us. We should change it ourselves.

And this amendment doesn't change the IDS system. The Imperial legislature will still have to vote on the amendment even if the efficient referenda amendment passes.

And you already know that because you were a member of the senate when the effcient referenda amendment...

You missed my point. The point is we cannot vote on them (which increases your chances of getting this passed by the way) but I don't seek a Federal remedy to that because it is not their job to fix that. Regional Ratification Booths are a regional responsibility.

This is amending the federal constitution, so this needs to be  a federal responsiblity. Like the SoFE who is administering the regional senate elections.

I actually tried twice to move the Regional Senate elections to being a Regional responsibility as well. It even passed the Senate once if I recall correctly.

Federal, implies a division of power between nationwide and regional. Therefore a Federal Constitution would have to require the input of the regions to remain a federalist system.

And to tell you the truth, will only serve to confirm the fears of regionalists when it comes to the actual proposal before us. It is not a referendum, the Atlasian Constitution cannot be amended by  federal referendum only by two thirds of the Senate and three-fourths of the regions (or by a convention, which also requires 3/4ths of the regions). These are regional ratification booths designed to give the input of the regions on these amendments. Calling this a referendum and saying that it isn't the region's responsibility is what is ridiculous.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It is for the regions to decide. The South's citizens don't even get to vote on these amendments at all right now. Something I disagreed with, but it is what our elected officials and the region decided to pursue and it is within their right to make it a decision of the legislature. I don't want the Feds coming in here and correcting it for us. We should change it ourselves.

And this amendment doesn't change the IDS system. The Imperial legislature will still have to vote on the amendment even if the efficient referenda amendment passes.

And you already know that because you were a member of the senate when the effcient referenda amendment...

You missed my point. The point is we cannot vote on them (which increases your chances of getting this passed by the way) but I don't seek a Federal remedy to that because it is not their job to fix that. Regional Ratification Booths are a regional responsibility.

This is amending the federal constitution, so this needs to be  a federal responsiblity. Like the SoFE who is administering the regional senate elections.

I actually tried twice to move the Regional Senate elections to being a Regional responsibility as well. It even passed the Senate once if I recall correctly.

Well, so I guess I will never be able to convince you .

Since I am suppose to be a pushover, you might still be able to if you keep trying. It not like I keep pushing the same line on every aspect of regionalism as I did six years ago or anything...

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I find it hilarious to see that the right seems to be much more opposed to a minor change (because seriously this wasn't a big deal or a big move or whateer) than a bill basically raising the minimum wage to $14/hour or a bill basically nationalizing the energy industry. Just one word: HAHAHAHA.

I didn't even bother PMing people this time, because this isn't a big deal for me and that Poirot has raised some good concerns that could improve this version.

It redefines the nature of the beast and endorses the concept in name if not in action of a national referendum. That is not minor Windjammer.

And yes, Regions have been the call to arms for the right since the formation of the RPP back in August of 2008. There was no "right" between 2007 and 2008. Half of the block were libertarians and there was nothing to unify them with conservatives on, until the Trondheim amendment tried to replace Regional Senate seats with an all At-Large Senate. That spurred the Southern Secessionist Party's creation by DWTL, SPC, Duke and PiT, and that later became the Regional Protection Party. The right, the conservative machine you toppled in the Mideast, were all products of the RPP's recruitment and organizational capacity. Even the Populares was formed out discontented RPPers largely, egged on by Hamilton. 

That said there was outrage at the nationalization bill in August. Fear of electricity nationalization, helped motivate the impressive turnout and unity behind Lumine against Adam Griffin months prior and also with Spiral the first week in August. Federalist GOTV heavily emphasized the push by TNF to nationalize everything he could get his hands on from February 2014 onward and I out to know, because I kind of wrote the damn things.

As for the $14 minimum wage, the inflation adjustments have in my estimate brought us at or near to that level because the statute was $12.50 indexed to inflation and set way back in early 2013.