was killing police officers in apartheid South Africa justified?

[Richard]

I've always believed it is wrong to murder.

[Richard]

So the French Resistance was wrong for killing SS officers? Or the Italian freedom fighters who killed Mussolini who no doubt also killed some of his blackshirts?

I believe there was a declaration of war.  In such a case, the SS killing French for rising up, or the French killing the SS officers is justified.

If you believe that blacks were justified in killing police officers, you should also believe it was justified for police officers to kill blacks, otherwise you're a hypocrite (but what is new?  you never make sense)

[Richard]

no the blacks were defending themselves against the police who were oppressing them through the apartheid system.

The police were regular people like you and me.  They didn't oppress anyone and certainly didn't enforce apartheid.

[Richard]

then who did enforce apartheid?

It wasn't enforced.  It was a way of life.  A black person wouldn't dream of going to a white restaurant, just like a white person wouldn't dream of going to a black restaurant.  And if they did, they would be kicked out and that would be the end of it.

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The police we called in to qualm a riot.  They were destroying many innocent people's shops, stores, buildings, and homes.  Innocent black people's homes and stores, not white people's.

[Richard]

so who kicked them out?

The owners of the establishment?

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What did de Klerk abolish?  What wasn't law?

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Myths.  All people required passes to pass through certain quarantine zones.  White or black, if you wanted to pass through certain parts of the country (for exable, TB zones), you needed a medical exam to prove that you are not carrying the TB bug to the rest of the country.

Laws that said blacks couldn't hire whites in their businesses?  What?  I never heard of such a thing in R S A.

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That is not how it started.  It was never a peaceful protest.  They were destroying the area around them.

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It is true...

[Richard]

I've always believed it is wrong to murder.

I agree.  Killing is never justified,

No hold on!!!!!!!!!  That is not what I said.  I said MURDER is wrong, not killing.  And boom, rest of your post falls flat on its face.  Next time, please read my post.

[Richard]

I've always believed it is wrong to murder.

I agree.  Killing is never justified,

No hold on!!!!!!!!!  That is not what I said.  I said MURDER is wrong, not killing.  And boom, rest of your post falls flat on its face.  Next time, please read my post.

Killing = murder.

No, if you're not educated enough to understand the difference between killing and murder (lets see, at least 4 languages I know has different words for the two and makes a clear distinction between the two), then we can stop arguing here.  I do not argue in such a manner with uneducated morons.

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It depends.  Just remember you are not judge, jury, and executioner.

[Richard]

Most black South Africans now admit Apartheid was actually good for them,

Excuse me? What on earth are you smoking kid?

It is actually quite true.  I was there recently and if you ask the laborers on the farms, most just want their simple life back.  They had their house, their farm, their animals, and were happy in life.  Now, crime is out of control and the country is miserable.

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Land wasn't taken from anyone.  It was bought.

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Perhaps, but you're saying it like that means a bad thing.  Name THREE countries that are prosperous growing countries with a healthy outlook on the future with a black leader.  Please do.

[Richard]

No, if you're not educated enough to understand the difference between killing and murder (lets see, at least 4 languages I know has different words for the two and makes a clear distinction between the two), then we can stop arguing here.  I do not argue in such a manner with uneducated morons.

This is the style Richius always uses when he's having an argument (I think he learned it from AuH2O): beat the person over the head with irrelevant insults like "you're an uneducated moron."  Obviously murder and killing have somewhat different meanings, but the outcome is the same: a human being is dead.

YES.  But the key is the DIFFERENT MEANINGS.  At least you're not dumb enough to not recognize when you made a mistake.

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One was sentenced by a jury, the other was not.  However, I'm open to looking at circumstances in the latter.  Obviously if the brutal police officers were raping people, then you're justified in killing them.  (this is not murder)

[Richard]

Name THREE countries that are prosperous growing countries with a healthy outlook on the future with a black leader.  Please do.

I agree.  Anytime a black person comes into power, the country is a failure.  Let's put the blacks in monkey cages where they belong.

OK Ebowed and Cashcow, lets change the question.  My bad for phrasing it in a bad way.  I do apologize.  Question withdrawn.  New question:

Name THREE countries that are prosperous growing countries with a healthy outlook on the future that was built up by black people, with a black leader.  Please do.

[Richard]

Perhaps, but you're saying it like that means a bad thing.  Name THREE countries that are prosperous growing countries with a healthy outlook on the future with a black leader.  Please do.

It would seem to me that the only countries to ever have a black leader would be African countries, most of which are already horrible places to live, so it's not exactly like we have a representative sample of black leaders to choose from.

And why do you think it is a bad place to live in?  Hmmm?

[Richard]

No, if you're not educated enough to understand the difference between killing and murder (lets see, at least 4 languages I know has different words for the two and makes a clear distinction between the two), then we can stop arguing here.  I do not argue in such a manner with uneducated morons.

This is the style Richius always uses when he's having an argument (I think he learned it from AuH2O): beat the person over the head with irrelevant insults like "you're an uneducated moron."  Obviously murder and killing have somewhat different meanings, but the outcome is the same: a human being is dead.

YES.  But the key is the DIFFERENT MEANINGS.  At least you're not dumb enough to not recognize when you made a mistake.

I'm just saying that the outcome is more important than the circumstances, imo.  I realize this is different for you.

I would definitely kill someone that is in the process of raping a little 3 year old girl.  Would you?  (assuming there is no option of simply disabling him: the option is to let the rape continue by walking away, ignoring it, or to shoot the bastard, what is your choice?)

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Perhaps, but it does give legitamacy.  Otherwise you wouldn't believe in prisons either, eh?

[Richard]

Here's where I'm confused: if you have no food and are dying of AIDS, in what way are you "free?"

Haha, you just made an argument against laissez-faire capitalism!

No he just made an argumetn atgainst socialim.

[Richard]

there's also places in the Carribbean too actually, but the point is made. I'll bite though: Grenada, Uganda and Ghana.

You think those are steller examples of good countries?  WTF?

Because all countries that are predonominately black are either places settled by former slaves who obviously wouldn't have much to start on or in Africa which was seriously screwed up by European colonization. I think Leopold II might have more to do with why the Congo is messed up than the skin color of the inhabitants.

So how come America, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand (and former South Africa) did so well?