Palestine college student protest megathread

[AltWorlder]

If you aim for the stars, you might hit Mars

[ingemann]

Was just talking to some of my younger gen z coworkers about this.

They are white, educated, left leaning young professionals in DC. The consensus from them was that the campus protestors are in the right and are treated unfairly, America is supporting war crimes and genocide, and these college students are young and broke so all they can do to make their voice heard is to protest.

One colleague who worked for the PA Dem Party in 2020 said she is ashamed that she helped Biden get elected but she will still vote for him.

I agreed with them on some of their points but said I worry about the implications of the US abandoning Israel. I also said I wish the protestors had the same energy for the hostages.

Idk how to feel. I don't want to be on the wrong side of history, but I don't know what the right side is. I wish I could see things as clearly as they do, but I just don't.

The truth is that this is a very complex issue. Let’s say Israel pull out of Gaza, what will happen then? Hamas will reestablish its position and rebuild, and begin throwing rockets against Israel again and Israel will attack them again resulting in more death then.

The solution which is needed is another occupier of Gaza than Israel, of course no one is really willing to step up.

[Agafin]

Idk how to feel. I don't want to be on the wrong side of history, but I don't know what the right side is. I wish I could see things as clearly as they do, but I just don't.

Why has this statement become so ubiquitous lately, especially in the context of the Israel/Palestine conflict? Seems like some sort of cultish thinking.

[GAinDC]

Idk how to feel. I don't want to be on the wrong side of history, but I don't know what the right side is. I wish I could see things as clearly as they do, but I just don't.

Why has this statement become so ubiquitous lately, especially in the context of the Israel/Palestine conflict? Seems like some sort of cultish thinking.

Many in the movement believe this is their civil rights movement/stonewall/black lives matter moment.

But as a progressive, I certainly wouldn’t feel great carrying water for a regime (Hamas) that is oppressive to women, gay people and others. Israel’s gov’t is also right wing but the country still has much more rights for those groups.

I can oppose the way Israel is waging this war while also realizing that empowering Hamas would not bring peace or stability to this region. But to many progressives who are “all in” on this issue, acknowledging that Israel has a right to defend itself after being attacked, and that Hamas is also culpable for the carnage in this war, is akin to supporting a genocide.

[SnowLabrador]

Biden could end this right now in less than an hour with a phone call to Netanyahu. Look at Begin and Reagan. The fact that Biden hasn't done so is unconscionable.

[MyLifeIsYours]

[AtorBoltox]

https://twitter.com/LittleMammith/status/1788015534753394766

[afleitch]

If it wasn't 'indiscriminately bombing' Gaza then (according to the World Bank/UN, 92% of primary roads, 84% of medical facilities, the majority of homes (alone accounting for nearly $14bn in losses) would not have been destroyed and 1.7 million people displaced.

Just because the death total is 'low' (even though in % terms it's actually comparable to other conflicts) does not mean the bombing is somehow 'targeted' when there's massive structural destruction.

Dresden was obliterated as a city in a literal firebombing campaign in 1945. 'Only' 25000 people died.

[jojoju1998]

Biden could end this right now in less than an hour with a phone call to Netanyahu. Look at Begin and Reagan. The fact that Biden hasn't done so is unconscionable.

Different Contexts. The US had far more political, economic, and hard power prestige back in the 1980s, and Reagan used the spectre of the Cold War and the fear of communism to make Begin bend.

Biden has no such leverage. Indeed, If people notice by now, Israel is very very chummy with Russia, and China. Netanyahu has no reason to listen to Biden. He could just switch his alliegiances to those countries, and it would be a utter poltiical diaster for the US.

[jojoju1998]

If it wasn't 'indiscriminately bombing' Gaza then (according to the World Bank/UN, 92% of primary roads, 84% of medical facilities, the majority of homes (alone accounting for nearly $14bn in losses) would not have been destroyed and 1.7 million people displaced.

Just because the death total is 'low' (even though in % terms it's actually comparable to other conflicts) does not mean the bombing is somehow 'targeted' when there's massive structural destruction.

Dresden was obliterated as a city in a literal firebombing campaign in 1945. 'Only' 25000 people died.

So would you call the Dresden bombings a genocide ?

I think the word " Genocide " is being massively overused now, because if we're going down that road, and call the Dresden bombings a genocide, then well..... everything in war is a genocide then, heck you can call the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki a Genocide.

[afleitch]

If it wasn't 'indiscriminately bombing' Gaza then (according to the World Bank/UN, 92% of primary roads, 84% of medical facilities, the majority of homes (alone accounting for nearly $14bn in losses) would not have been destroyed and 1.7 million people displaced.

Just because the death total is 'low' (even though in % terms it's actually comparable to other conflicts) does not mean the bombing is somehow 'targeted' when there's massive structural destruction.

Dresden was obliterated as a city in a literal firebombing campaign in 1945. 'Only' 25000 people died.

So would you call the Dresden bombings a genocide ?

I think the word " Genocide " is being massively overused now, because if we're going down that road, and call the Dresden bombings a genocide, then well..... everything in war is a genocide then, heck you can call the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki a Genocide.

Where did I call it a genocide? I called it a firebombing campaign. With a relatively 'low' mortality rate despite the city being obliterated.

The point being that 'oh only X were killed' is not an indicator of the lack of severity of an urban bombing campaign.

[Agafin]

Exclusive: House Republicans Introduce Legislation To Send Hamas-Sympathizing Student Visa Holders Home

Tennessee Republican Rep. Andy Ogles introduced legislation Wednesday to send Hamas-sympathizing student visa holders home and told Hamas-Sympathizing student visa holders to “go study abroad in Gaza.”

The Daily Caller first obtained a copy of the legislation, which is titled the Study Abroad Act. The bill would specifically “revoke the F, J, or M visa” of any illegal immigrant who authorities have “arrested for rioting or unlawful protest,” or who authorities have “arrested while establishing, participating in, or promoting an encampment” at an institute of higher education.

“The ability to receive higher education in the United States is truly a privilege. Previously known for their prestige and unparalleled academics, many elite American universities have damaged their hard-earned reputations by opening their doors to impressionable terrorist sympathizers. In the last several weeks, our nation has seen these institutions overrun and terrorized by young people calling for a third intifada,” Ogles told the Caller before introducing the bill.

https://dailycaller.com/2024/05/08/exclusive-house-republicans-introduce-legislation-to-send-hamas-sympathizing-student-visa-holders-home/

How remarkably stupid do you have to be as an international student to join these protests? And some are even ILLEGAL immigrants, wtf. You are a guest in the country, be happy to be there as so many would love such an opportunity but aren't as priviledged.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Exclusive: House Republicans Introduce Legislation To Send Hamas-Sympathizing Student Visa Holders Home

Tennessee Republican Rep. Andy Ogles introduced legislation Wednesday to send Hamas-sympathizing student visa holders home and told Hamas-Sympathizing student visa holders to “go study abroad in Gaza.”

The Daily Caller first obtained a copy of the legislation, which is titled the Study Abroad Act. The bill would specifically “revoke the F, J, or M visa” of any illegal immigrant who authorities have “arrested for rioting or unlawful protest,” or who authorities have “arrested while establishing, participating in, or promoting an encampment” at an institute of higher education.

“The ability to receive higher education in the United States is truly a privilege. Previously known for their prestige and unparalleled academics, many elite American universities have damaged their hard-earned reputations by opening their doors to impressionable terrorist sympathizers. In the last several weeks, our nation has seen these institutions overrun and terrorized by young people calling for a third intifada,” Ogles told the Caller before introducing the bill.

https://dailycaller.com/2024/05/08/exclusive-house-republicans-introduce-legislation-to-send-hamas-sympathizing-student-visa-holders-home/

How remarkably stupid do you have to be as an international student to join these protests? And some are even ILLEGAL immigrants, wtf. You are a guest in the country, be happy to be there as so many would love such an opportunity but aren't as priviledged.

You actually don’t need a new law for this as current law makes it illegal for people who are on visa to advocate for terrorist groups and specifically pro Palestinian ones .

Biden is simply not enforcing the law

[Beet]

'“revoke the F, J, or M visa” of any illegal immigrant' is a strange phrase. If you have a valid F, J, or M visa then you are not an illegal immigrant. You would only be an illegal immigrant if you were somehow staying despite your visa expiring or otherwise not being valid. The Daily Caller article, if interpreted literally, says the law would only apply to these students. We do not know if any such students even exist, but if they do, they are probably very small in number.

I would not be surprised if that is not what this law is about and the Daily Caller is just an unreliable source, however.

[ugabug]

If it wasn't 'indiscriminately bombing' Gaza then (according to the World Bank/UN, 92% of primary roads, 84% of medical facilities, the majority of homes (alone accounting for nearly $14bn in losses) would not have been destroyed and 1.7 million people displaced.

Just because the death total is 'low' (even though in % terms it's actually comparable to other conflicts) does not mean the bombing is somehow 'targeted' when there's massive structural destruction.

Dresden was obliterated as a city in a literal firebombing campaign in 1945. 'Only' 25000 people died.

Except that figure from Dresden is high because at Dresden 25,000 people died over a period of only two days because it was an indiscriminate firebombing. If Israel had really been doing indiscriminate bombing like you say they are then you'd be seeing far higher casualties than 35,000 people over a period of six months. This is especially true when fighting against an enemy like Hamas who uses not only their own civilians but also their own infrastructure, such as schools and hospitals, as shields.

[heatcharger]

I predicted there would be a Muslim ban.

[ugabug]

If it wasn't 'indiscriminately bombing' Gaza then (according to the World Bank/UN, 92% of primary roads, 84% of medical facilities, the majority of homes (alone accounting for nearly $14bn in losses) would not have been destroyed and 1.7 million people displaced.

Just because the death total is 'low' (even though in % terms it's actually comparable to other conflicts) does not mean the bombing is somehow 'targeted' when there's massive structural destruction.

Dresden was obliterated as a city in a literal firebombing campaign in 1945. 'Only' 25000 people died.

So would you call the Dresden bombings a genocide ?

I think the word " Genocide " is being massively overused now, because if we're going down that road, and call the Dresden bombings a genocide, then well..... everything in war is a genocide then, heck you can call the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki a Genocide.

Where did I call it a genocide? I called it a firebombing campaign. With a relatively 'low' mortality rate despite the city being obliterated.

The point being that 'oh only X were killed' is not an indicator of the lack of severity of an urban bombing campaign.

I agree how many died on it's own is not a good indicator but how many died during a period of time is a good indicator. 25,000 in a period of two days is a lot especially when the city had a population of around 600,000 people at that time. Compared to 35,000 out of around 2 million over six months and further, that 35,000 isn't all from bombings but also from ground combat. To me, that doesn't look anything like an indiscriminate bombing campaign.

[wnwnwn]

Exclusive: House Republicans Introduce Legislation To Send Hamas-Sympathizing Student Visa Holders Home

Tennessee Republican Rep. Andy Ogles introduced legislation Wednesday to send Hamas-sympathizing student visa holders home and told Hamas-Sympathizing student visa holders to “go study abroad in Gaza.”

The Daily Caller first obtained a copy of the legislation, which is titled the Study Abroad Act. The bill would specifically “revoke the F, J, or M visa” of any illegal immigrant who authorities have “arrested for rioting or unlawful protest,” or who authorities have “arrested while establishing, participating in, or promoting an encampment” at an institute of higher education.

“The ability to receive higher education in the United States is truly a privilege. Previously known for their prestige and unparalleled academics, many elite American universities have damaged their hard-earned reputations by opening their doors to impressionable terrorist sympathizers. In the last several weeks, our nation has seen these institutions overrun and terrorized by young people calling for a third intifada,” Ogles told the Caller before introducing the bill.

https://dailycaller.com/2024/05/08/exclusive-house-republicans-introduce-legislation-to-send-hamas-sympathizing-student-visa-holders-home/

How remarkably stupid do you have to be as an international student to join these protests? And some are even ILLEGAL immigrants, wtf. You are a guest in the country, be happy to be there as so many would love such an opportunity but aren't as priviledged.

I think the ones saying straight hate speech or destroying property should had their visas revoked for the safety of americans, but not the rest.

[jojoju1998]

If it wasn't 'indiscriminately bombing' Gaza then (according to the World Bank/UN, 92% of primary roads, 84% of medical facilities, the majority of homes (alone accounting for nearly $14bn in losses) would not have been destroyed and 1.7 million people displaced.

Just because the death total is 'low' (even though in % terms it's actually comparable to other conflicts) does not mean the bombing is somehow 'targeted' when there's massive structural destruction.

Dresden was obliterated as a city in a literal firebombing campaign in 1945. 'Only' 25000 people died.

So would you call the Dresden bombings a genocide ?

I think the word " Genocide " is being massively overused now, because if we're going down that road, and call the Dresden bombings a genocide, then well..... everything in war is a genocide then, heck you can call the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki a Genocide.

Where did I call it a genocide? I called it a firebombing campaign. With a relatively 'low' mortality rate despite the city being obliterated.

The point being that 'oh only X were killed' is not an indicator of the lack of severity of an urban bombing campaign.

I agree how many died on it's own is not a good indicator but how many died during a period of time is a good indicator. 25,000 in a period of two days is a lot especially when the city had a population of around 600,000 people at that time. Compared to 35,000 out of around 2 million over six months and further, that 35,000 isn't all from bombings but also from ground combat. To me, that doesn't look anything like an indiscriminate bombing campaign.

By contrast, the atomic bombs in Japan killed over 200,000 people instantly.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

How American to kick out people cause you don’t like what they’re saying

[afleitch]

If it wasn't 'indiscriminately bombing' Gaza then (according to the World Bank/UN, 92% of primary roads, 84% of medical facilities, the majority of homes (alone accounting for nearly $14bn in losses) would not have been destroyed and 1.7 million people displaced.

Just because the death total is 'low' (even though in % terms it's actually comparable to other conflicts) does not mean the bombing is somehow 'targeted' when there's massive structural destruction.

Dresden was obliterated as a city in a literal firebombing campaign in 1945. 'Only' 25000 people died.

So would you call the Dresden bombings a genocide ?

I think the word " Genocide " is being massively overused now, because if we're going down that road, and call the Dresden bombings a genocide, then well..... everything in war is a genocide then, heck you can call the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki a Genocide.

Where did I call it a genocide? I called it a firebombing campaign. With a relatively 'low' mortality rate despite the city being obliterated.

The point being that 'oh only X were killed' is not an indicator of the lack of severity of an urban bombing campaign.

I agree how many died on it's own is not a good indicator but how many died during a period of time is a good indicator. 25,000 in a period of two days is a lot especially when the city had a population of around 600,000 people at that time. Compared to 35,000 out of around 2 million over six months and further, that 35,000 isn't all from bombings but also from ground combat. To me, that doesn't look anything like an indiscriminate bombing campaign.

If it wasn't 'indiscriminately bombing' Gaza then (according to the World Bank/UN, 92% of primary roads, 84% of medical facilities, the majority of homes (alone accounting for nearly $14bn in losses) would not have been destroyed and 1.7 million people displaced.

[dead0man]

How American to kick out people cause you don’t like what they’re saying

can you list the countries that are super welcoming to people who celebrate terrorism?

[dead0man]

https://twitter.com/LittleMammith/status/1788015534753394766

it's hilarious how frequently the protestors either say ignorant things or run away from questions/cameras because they know they are going to say ignorant things.  And not even from the brave souls there trolling them, but from the friendly to them mainstream press too.

why are so many people protesting something that they don't understand?

[ugabug]

If it wasn't 'indiscriminately bombing' Gaza then (according to the World Bank/UN, 92% of primary roads, 84% of medical facilities, the majority of homes (alone accounting for nearly $14bn in losses) would not have been destroyed and 1.7 million people displaced.

Just because the death total is 'low' (even though in % terms it's actually comparable to other conflicts) does not mean the bombing is somehow 'targeted' when there's massive structural destruction.

Dresden was obliterated as a city in a literal firebombing campaign in 1945. 'Only' 25000 people died.

So would you call the Dresden bombings a genocide ?

I think the word " Genocide " is being massively overused now, because if we're going down that road, and call the Dresden bombings a genocide, then well..... everything in war is a genocide then, heck you can call the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki a Genocide.

Where did I call it a genocide? I called it a firebombing campaign. With a relatively 'low' mortality rate despite the city being obliterated.

The point being that 'oh only X were killed' is not an indicator of the lack of severity of an urban bombing campaign.

I agree how many died on it's own is not a good indicator but how many died during a period of time is a good indicator. 25,000 in a period of two days is a lot especially when the city had a population of around 600,000 people at that time. Compared to 35,000 out of around 2 million over six months and further, that 35,000 isn't all from bombings but also from ground combat. To me, that doesn't look anything like an indiscriminate bombing campaign.

If it wasn't 'indiscriminately bombing' Gaza then (according to the World Bank/UN, 92% of primary roads, 84% of medical facilities, the majority of homes (alone accounting for nearly $14bn in losses) would not have been destroyed and 1.7 million people displaced.

I posted previously how Hamas will use both their civilians and their infrastructure as shields, when a terrorist organization is willing to hide behind hospitals and homes you're going to get a lot of property damage. If the majority of homes in Gaza have been destroyed then I find it amazing that the casualty rate is as low as it is if Israel is bombing indiscriminately. Finally, as for the large amount of people displaced, that is what will happen during a war where a small but densely populated area becomes a battlefield.

[Brittain33]

How American to kick out people cause you don’t like what they’re saying

can you list the countries that are super welcoming to people who celebrate terrorism?

I can think of one country that used to be a major power that fits the bill, but I’d probably get infracted for naming it.