The Spank Poll

[dazzleman]

Jess, I'm curious about what you perceive to be the difference between spanking and smacking, or slapping, that you find spanking to be OK, but not smacking.

This is in regards to slapping in the face.  My mother did it a few times, mostly out of anger, and it hurt, left red marks, brought tears to my eyes, etc.  Maybe no different from spanking in terms of those symptoms, but ... I don't know ... you just don't hit a kid in the face.  A butt has so much more padding that spanking can be startling and sting for a bit, but if done in a measured way, it's ultimately harmless.  It's hard for me to ever justify an open-hand slap to the face.

Slapping on the hands -- that's fine.

I think a smack in the face is somehow more humiliating than a whack on the behind -- it seems to be more of a violation of personal sovereignty somehow, if that makes sense.

Also, I think the face is more sensitive to being hit, since unlike the behind, it was not designed for contact with other surfaces.

Still, you seem to have turned out OK in spite of a few smacks across the face.  There was a woman in my neighborhood when I was growing up who used smacks across the face as her primary means of discipline.  It was invariably accompanied, of course, by extremely loud, high-pitched screaming of an extended duration.  She also grabbed her son by the hair and jerked his head back and forth, sometimes smashing it into the car window, or something like that.  Truthfully, her son deserved it; his behavior was monstrous, but it probably wasn't the most effective means of discipline, judging by his behavior.

[J-Mann]

Still, you seem to have turned out OK in spite of a few smacks across the face.  There was a woman in my neighborhood when I was growing up who used smacks across the face as her primary means of discipline.  It was invariably accompanied, of course, by extremely loud, high-pitched screaming of an extended duration.  She also grabbed her son by the hair and jerked his head back and forth, sometimes smashing it into the car window, or something like that.  Truthfully, her son deserved it; his behavior was monstrous, but it probably wasn't the most effective means of discipline, judging by his behavior.

Hehe, thanks -- I think I turned out alright too, despite the occassional slap in the face!

[??????????]

Still, you seem to have turned out OK in spite of a few smacks across the face.  There was a woman in my neighborhood when I was growing up who used smacks across the face as her primary means of discipline.  It was invariably accompanied, of course, by extremely loud, high-pitched screaming of an extended duration.  She also grabbed her son by the hair and jerked his head back and forth, sometimes smashing it into the car window, or something like that.  Truthfully, her son deserved it; his behavior was monstrous, but it probably wasn't the most effective means of discipline, judging by his behavior.

Hehe, thanks -- I think I turned out alright too, despite the occassional slap in the face!

Oh really? Does that explain the avatar?

[Akno21]

I don't get washing out someone's mouth with soap. Surely there are things in soap that shouldn't be in the mouth, and potentially swallowed? It seems like a huge safety hazard to me, as well as just plain stupid. I know it's symbolic thing, but there is something about forcing soap into a child's mouth that just makes me think "that's wrong."

[??????????]

I don't get washing out someone's mouth with soap. Surely there are things in soap that shouldn't be in the mouth, and potentially swallowed? It seems like a huge safety hazard to me, as well as just plain stupid. I know it's symbolic thing, but there is something about forcing soap into a child's mouth that just makes me think "that's wrong."

Ivory soap is non-toxic. But it does burn like hell. Believe me I had it done once or twice.

[Akno21]

I don't get washing out someone's mouth with soap. Surely there are things in soap that shouldn't be in the mouth, and potentially swallowed? It seems like a huge safety hazard to me, as well as just plain stupid. I know it's symbolic thing, but there is something about forcing soap into a child's mouth that just makes me think "that's wrong."

Ivory soap is non-toxic. But it does burn like hell. Believe me I had it done once or twice.

I doubt many families make a point of having the perfect mouth washing soap available, many may just use whatever they find, which scares me.

[??????????]

I don't get washing out someone's mouth with soap. Surely there are things in soap that shouldn't be in the mouth, and potentially swallowed? It seems like a huge safety hazard to me, as well as just plain stupid. I know it's symbolic thing, but there is something about forcing soap into a child's mouth that just makes me think "that's wrong."

Ivory soap is non-toxic. But it does burn like hell. Believe me I had it done once or twice.

I doubt many families make a point of having the perfect mouth washing soap available, many may just use whatever they find, which scares me.

The majority of bar soaps are non toxic as far as I know.

[© tweed]

I am opposed to legalized assault.

[J-Mann]

Still, you seem to have turned out OK in spite of a few smacks across the face.  There was a woman in my neighborhood when I was growing up who used smacks across the face as her primary means of discipline.  It was invariably accompanied, of course, by extremely loud, high-pitched screaming of an extended duration.  She also grabbed her son by the hair and jerked his head back and forth, sometimes smashing it into the car window, or something like that.  Truthfully, her son deserved it; his behavior was monstrous, but it probably wasn't the most effective means of discipline, judging by his behavior.

Hehe, thanks -- I think I turned out alright too, despite the occassional slap in the face!

Oh really? Does that explain the avatar?

Yes, not being beaten enough times in the face when I was a five-year-old has turned me into a Michael Moore liberal, States.

Pay no attention to the avatar -- a Kansas Democrat is far different from the stereotype.

[ilikeverin]

Aaah, my precious Indiana is near the top on all these lists

Anyway, I'm with Tweed.

[opebo]

I think a smack in the face is somehow more humiliating than a whack on the behind -- it seems to be more of a violation of personal sovereignty somehow, if that makes sense.

That is precisely the point of all this parental violence, dazzleman - the physical pain is negligable compared to the message being sent: 1) that the child has no personal sovereignty, 2) that the parents have total power, and  3) that they might at any moment use their power to harm the child.  This is a terrifying message to send, and is ridiculous overkill for the minor offense of saying forbidden words. 

[dazzleman]

I think a smack in the face is somehow more humiliating than a whack on the behind -- it seems to be more of a violation of personal sovereignty somehow, if that makes sense.

That is precisely the point of all this parental violence, dazzleman - the physical pain is negligable compared to the message being sent: 1) that the child has no personal sovereignty, 2) that the parents have total power, and  3) that they might at any moment use their power to harm the child.  This is a terrifying message to send, and is ridiculous overkill for the minor offense of saying forbidden words. 

Actually, with small children parents should have total power, but they should use it judiciously.  As the kids get older, the power of the parents should gradually wane, but never be totally gone until the kids are out of the house.

In your case, your parents still have the power, because you've chosen not to support yourself.  There are ways other than just physical to take away a person's 'sovereignty,' and it appears that you never had yours to begin with.

[TomC]

I used to think spanking your kid was wrong, then I had one.

[dazzleman]

I used to think spanking your kid was wrong, then I had one.

Funny how that works.  Most people who are most vocal against spanking have never had any children.  Clearly, there's a reason for that.

[© tweed]

I used to think spanking your kid was wrong, then I had one.

Funny how that works.  Most people who are most vocal against spanking have never had any children.  Clearly, there's a reason for that.

Of course: smart people don't bother to have kids; smart people take the right side of this issue. 

[dazzleman]

I used to think spanking your kid was wrong, then I had one.

Funny how that works.  Most people who are most vocal against spanking have never had any children.  Clearly, there's a reason for that.

Of course: smart people don't bother to have kids; smart people take the right side of this issue. 

Boss, have you ever been spanked or slapped around?

I was only spanked or slapped to a very small degree as a kid.  I was actually reasonably well behaved until I hit around 12 or so.  Then my behavior took a sharp nosedive, and I think my parents were bewildered.  My dad did hit me a few times during that period, but I never got what I would call a beating (and that is much different from a spanking).

After a couple of years of that, I changed tactics.  I realized that the emotional toll of these awful confrontations with my parents just wasn't worth it.  Of course, I wanted to continue to do things they didn't want me to do, so I adopted a non-confrontational, but deceptive, approach.  I basically told them what they wanted to hear, and switched some of my misbehavior from home to school and when I was unsupervised.

I came to enjoy leading this double life as a teenager, doing what I wanted and deceiving my parents about it.  I remember telling my mom, one of the times that I got in trouble at school and assigned to a week detention or something like that, that I'd be coming home late the next week because I was staying after school to tutor a kid for the national honor society.  She was so pleased and proud...

One thing that hasn't been discussed is the effect of inappropriate treatment of kids other than hitting.  I have experienced and witness certain types of verbal abuse that probably is more traumatic and does more lasting damage than a properly administered spanking, or even a series of slaps across the face.  I think it's better to look at the whole picture than just focus on some narrow area like hitting, and then define all forms of hitting to be the same.

[TeePee4Prez]

Knowing how some kids are today, they do need the fear of spanking for major offenses and some of these kids are violent.  I'm not saying abuse, but like dazzleman or J-Mann eluded to earlier is sufficient.  For school purposes, I oppose, BUT there are times that my mom and brother have been threatened and even hit by a kid in my mom's case.  Though I oppose corporal punishment, I feel that such a violent kid should be dealt with as non-violently as possible being that a larger teacher or school police should try to bring the unruly kid to the ground.

[© tweed]

I used to think spanking your kid was wrong, then I had one.

Funny how that works.  Most people who are most vocal against spanking have never had any children.  Clearly, there's a reason for that.

Of course: smart people don't bother to have kids; smart people take the right side of this issue. 

Boss, have you ever been spanked or slapped around?

Not that often, I suppose.  The times that I've been hurt the most were actually mistakes during 'discipline', and I have a small, faint scar from such an occurance.

I haven't been hit since I was 9 or so.

[Alcon]

I get the impression that some people who were spanked when they are younger are being a little defensive here.  You have to consider, in part, that this is a generational thing.  Spanking being OK was pretty universal 40-50 years ago, as was soap.  It's not like doing either automatically makes a bad parent.  Anyone saying that is being ridiculous.

Personally, my parents never even grounded me.  They had much more effective ways of punishing me without doing it physically.  They explained just why what I was doing was stupid, and I pretty much got the message.  Most kids have an iota of logic by the time the whole "time out corner" (or whatever equivilent everyone here had) thing wears out.

And as for soap...my parents allow my to swear around them pretty freely because I'm not dumb enough to do it around other people.

[A18]

Jess, I'm curious about what you perceive to be the difference between spanking and smacking, or slapping, that you find spanking to be OK, but not smacking.

This is in regards to slapping in the face.  My mother did it a few times, mostly out of anger, and it hurt, left red marks, brought tears to my eyes, etc.  Maybe no different from spanking in terms of those symptoms, but ... I don't know ... you just don't hit a kid in the face.  A butt has so much more padding that spanking can be startling and sting for a bit, but if done in a measured way, it's ultimately harmless.  It's hard for me to ever justify an open-hand slap to the face.

I think it depends on the situation. I've seen some really annoying kids, that frankly need to have the **** beat out of them.

I was slapped as a child, and I think I turned out okay.

[minionofmidas]

Washing a child's mouth out...that sounds really freakish and disgusting. I've never hear of that being actually done here...although it probably was, at one time, since it exists as a proverbial expression (as a "command" to do that to yourself). Then again, at one time babies were put to sleep with concentrated poppyseed juice.

[A18]

Washing a child's mouth out...that sounds really freakish and disgusting. I've never hear of that being actually done here...although it probably was, at one time, since it exists as a proverbial expression (as a "command" to do that to yourself). Then again, at one time babies were put to sleep with concentrated poppyseed juice.

No one ever washed my mouth out with soap. However, I used to eat it, so I know it isn't that bad.

[minionofmidas]

Well yes. It's not that different chemically from toothpaste.

I think it's the having something forced into your mouth part about it that's freaking me out a little. I couldn't have that.

[dazzleman]

Knowing how some kids are today, they do need the fear of spanking for major offenses and some of these kids are violent.  I'm not saying abuse, but like dazzleman or J-Mann eluded to earlier is sufficient.  For school purposes, I oppose, BUT there are times that my mom and brother have been threatened and even hit by a kid in my mom's case.  Though I oppose corporal punishment, I feel that such a violent kid should be dealt with as non-violently as possible being that a larger teacher or school police should try to bring the unruly kid to the ground.

Interesting point Flyers.  We hear so much about how wrong it is for teachers to hit kids.  But now we have the kids hitting teachers, and of course, the rights of these kids are paramount.  The teachers often have to deal with those kids being back in their class after a couple of days suspension, which is a total joke and a total affront to the teachers.

Why do the 'students' have all the rights, and the teachers none, in these cases?  I read stories about a couple of teachers who have 'abused' kids in a neighboring, out-of-control urban school district, but nothing about the behavior of the kids.  Rest assured it is not the teachers who are causing all the problems in these schools.

I think the problem with our society is that we only examine a small part of every issue.  Instead of looking at the entire issue of parent and student discipline, and how to best achieve it in the long-term best interests of society and the children, we narrow the focus to a single inane point -- such as 'should we hit?'  We do no analysis of whether or not hitting actually works, or if it does, what will be the cost of discontinuing it, in the form of deteriorating discipline.  We don't ask why a teacher may find it necessary to exert some form of discipline, and we don't honestly look at whether controlled hitting, or the bad effects of the discipline that is lacking when we do nothing but limit disciplinary methods, do more harm.  We simply ask the schools to do more of the parents' jobs for delinquent, lazy and unsupportive parents, and then remove the tools that they have traditionally used to do the job.  It seems that we reduce every issue to some inane small part of the equation that doesn't take the big picture into account, and this is a perfect example of that.

[ilikeverin]

Two wrongs don't make a right.