The Spank Poll

[A18]

Spanking a kid for hitting another kid might strike a three-year-old as a mite contradictory.  "It's not right to hit someone you like, so I'm going to hit you because of it"?  How do you answer questions about how that makes sense to a three-year-old?

How hard is it to distinguish between retaliation and initiation?

But what the kid sees is his or herself not liking what the other kid did and punishing them for that; to them, that's the same thing the parent is doing.  Your point is well-taken, though.

Well, and by hitting the kid, you make it pretty clear that he shouldn't be punishing people.

You also make it clear that violence merits violence.

The point is that he won't be practicing it.

[Alcon]

This isn't a matter of morality.

What does "this" refer to?

You mentioned subjective morality in response to my "eye for an eye" statement right after tellking Philip that this isn't a matter of morality.

Arguing "eye to eye" is a morality matter, and one for a different topic; child-rearing may partially be, but is not entirely

[TeePee4Prez]

My mother has been hit and quite badly I might add.  Of coruse, I'm not qualified to make an opinion on this, but the student was amply punished and rightfully so.

Adult jail time?

No, explusion.

[dazzleman]

My mother has been hit and quite badly I might add.  Of coruse, I'm not qualified to make an opinion on this, but the student was amply punished and rightfully so.

Adult jail time?

No, explusion.

I don't know how badly he hit her, but for an assault, expulsion is not nearly enough.  It's only the beginning, in my opinion.  And 'expulsion' often doesn't mean what it says.  It often simply means a longer term suspension, during which the taxpayers have to pay for a private tutor, and after which the 'student's' 'rights' are reinstated.  Or it can simply mean transfer to a different school.

[Alcon]

My mother has been hit and quite badly I might add.  Of coruse, I'm not qualified to make an opinion on this, but the student was amply punished and rightfully so.

Adult jail time?

No, explusion.

I don't know how badly he hit her, but for an assault, expulsion is not nearly enough.  It's only the beginning, in my opinion.  And 'expulsion' often doesn't mean what it says.  It often simply means a longer term suspension, during which the taxpayers have to pay for a private tutor, and after which the 'student's' 'rights' are reinstated.  Or it can simply mean transfer to a different school.

An assault charge isn't the school's decision.

[dazzleman]

We do not generally punish criminals with violence, by the way. 

That's because long-term incarceration is worse than short-term violence.  That's even why a friend of mine who went to a school that sometimes offered a choice between a paddling and hours of detention chose the paddling when he could -- he said it was over with quickly, and he preferred that to a punishment that dragged on.

I'm not a big advocate of hitting, and I can't remember the last time I hit somebody.  But inflicting a measured amount of physical pain is not necessarily the worst form of punishment.  All punishment involves the infliction of some type of pain, whether it be physical pain, mental pain, financial pain, or the pain of lost time and long term boredom.  The point is -- for punishment to be effective, it has to cost the receiver something.  It has to hurt.  Physical pain is only one way of making a person hurt, and not necessarily the worst one, either, depending upon the circumstances.

[dazzleman]

My mother has been hit and quite badly I might add.  Of coruse, I'm not qualified to make an opinion on this, but the student was amply punished and rightfully so.

Adult jail time?

No, explusion.

I don't know how badly he hit her, but for an assault, expulsion is not nearly enough.  It's only the beginning, in my opinion.  And 'expulsion' often doesn't mean what it says.  It often simply means a longer term suspension, during which the taxpayers have to pay for a private tutor, and after which the 'student's' 'rights' are reinstated.  Or it can simply mean transfer to a different school.

An assault charge isn't the school's decision.

I realize that, but the police should be involved in an actual assault, and the 'student' should be dealt with severely by the law in a case like that.

[Alcon]

Oftentimes, it is easier not to pursue an assault charge, especially if the injury is minor.  I can understand why the teacher wouldn't want to occupy their life with a trial just to make an example of one student.

By the way, I fully agree you.  What's worse to the average kid - a quick slap or a month without the phone or electronics?

[dazzleman]

Oftentimes, it is easier not to pursue an assault charge, especially if the injury is minor.  I can understand why the teacher wouldn't want to occupy their life with a trial just to make an example of one student.

By the way, I fully agree you.  What's worse to the average kid - a quick slap or a month without the phone or electronics?

I guess it depends on the severity of the assault.  But the very idea of a teacher being assaulted is very disturbing.  And I don't think that many schools, particularly urban ones, deal with this effectively for political reasons, especially if the assaulting student is black or Puerto Rican, and the teacher is white.  They don't want to be seen as 'persecuting' minority students, so they let a lot of these things slide.  This happens a huge amount in schools that are multi-racial, or heavily minority.

Aside from physical assaults, teachers in these schools are subjected to verbal assaults, threats, and intimidation on a regular basis.  That's why schools like this can't hold on to good teachers, not because of money.

I was not necessarily the best behaved student in school, but I would never have talked back directly to a teacher or administrator, much less even dreamed of physically assaulting one.  There is something seriously wrong when teachers walk around a school afraid of students.

As far as the last point is concerned, definitely, a quick slap in the mouth is a lot better than a month without electronics.  Just as in the case of my friend, he found a quick paddling to be a lot better than extended periods of detention, which was the alternative.  (Of course, he was a wiseass who got lots of both, but that's a different issue..)  That's the whole point I was trying to make -- that physical punishment is not necessarily the worst form, if the punisher doesn't go overboard, and that point is often lost in debates about physical punishment.

[Gabu]

Is Survey USA accurate?

They're not the best, but they tend to be pretty good.  The exact numbers in an unpolitical poll such as this tend not to be as important, anyway; the general idea is what people look at.

[Gabu]

First of all, how do you think British Columbia would compare to these U. S. states when it comes to spanking and soap.

The residents on Vancouver Island and in Vancouver would probably be quite strongly in opposition, but I don't claim to be an expert on the views of those who live in northern BC.

Secondly, why do you think spanking is more common in red states?

I think this reason is pretty clear: conservatives are much more likely than liberals to feel that all any child needs is a good bout of discipline, which could be a swat on the butt or a soap mouthwash.

[Hatman 🍁]

In Canada it's mostly immigrant families that spank, which is why many misbehaved youth happen to be immigrants. Immigrants and spoiled white kids. Spoiled white kids get no discipline whatsoever. Discipline is important but physical abuse is not how to do it. 

[??????????]

I guess that's how some conservatives think, but the whole attitude that "a child needs a good bout of discipline" seems like such a negative attitude.  It's like they're focusing on the negative aspects of being a kid,  not the positive.  I don't understand that way of thinking.

A switch in time saves crime.

[Frodo]

I was spanked as a kid by my mother, and there was no lasting damage, either physical or psychological.  In fact, I was more psychologically damaged from the bullying I endured in middle school than the spanking I received when I was being (for lack of a better term despite the fact I absolutely hate this word) naughty.  And I have no problems in having the same done to my kids if I ever have them.  The actual spanking I would leave to my wife -she would be the disciplinarian in the household.     

[dazzleman]

I guess that's how some conservatives think, but the whole attitude that "a child needs a good bout of discipline" seems like such a negative attitude.  It's like they're focusing on the negative aspects of being a kid,  not the positive.  I don't understand that way of thinking.

You need to focus on both the positive and negative.  Encourage the positive, but place limits on regular behavior.  Carrot and stick.  Neither one works well without the other.

[Frodo]

I remember someone from another forum saying that 'you should only be spanked if you are old enough to enjoy it!' 

[Hatman 🍁]

I was spanked as a kid by my mother, and there was no lasting damage, either physical or psychological.  In fact, I was more psychologically damaged from the bullying I endured in middle school than the spanking I received when I was being (for lack of a better term despite the fact I absolutely hate this word) naughty.  And I have no problems in having the same done to my kids if I ever have them.  The actual spanking I would leave to my wife -she would be the disciplinarian in the household.     

It's not always about psychological damage. I just find that improper discipline (or lack thereof) techniques can make kids into monsters.

[angus]

I wish they would do that kind of question more often. 

Very disappointing.  The title of your thread is so very misleading.  Not what I thought it'd be at all.

well, anyway, I'd answer no, yes, no, to the three questions.  I should add that I have never spanked my son and hope I never shall.  My wife feels the same way.  So don't misinterpret, or read too much into, the middle question if people answer yes.

[Frodo]

I was spanked as a kid by my mother, and there was no lasting damage, either physical or psychological.  In fact, I was more psychologically damaged from the bullying I endured in middle school than the spanking I received when I was being (for lack of a better term despite the fact I absolutely hate this word) naughty.  And I have no problems in having the same done to my kids if I ever have them.  The actual spanking I would leave to my wife -she would be the disciplinarian in the household.     

It's not always about psychological damage. I just find that improper discipline (or lack thereof) techniques can make kids into monsters.

Well this is hardly an argument against corporal punishment -of course, if you over-discipline (i.e. physically abuse) or spoil kids rotten, you will not have happy results.  That's common knowledge.  Every parent has to struggle with trying to find that precarious balance between these two unpleasant extremes.