Clinton: Polls Showing Sanders Could Beat Trump "Mean Nothing To Me"

[IceSpear]

Oh I know, I'm not saying she needs to right now.  Just that I want to see it.  I'm hungry for some good old fashioned Clinton war games, the inclusive mother-bird Hillary is boring.

Lately I've been wondering what the fallout would be if she literally said "f-ck you" to Trump's face. Honestly, I see few downsides.

Imagine if, at the first debate, Trump straight-up calls her an enabler and woman-hater for being angry at her husband's mistresses.

"I've only said this to one other person: my husband. It was in a moment of real anguish. I cannot explain the feelings of betrayal and anger I felt when I found out my husband had been cheating on me and disrespecting me the way he was. I hope no one has to feel that, but those women who have sadly been in the same situation know exactly what I mean. And for you, Donald Trump, womanizer extraordinaire, to stand here and lecture me for simply having these feelings...  I'll say it again: F-ck you. You would be an insult to the office of the presidency."

BOOM.

One can dream.

That would be amazingly epic. Would only be worth it if she needed a gamechanger though. It could definitely cause a backlash among the sexist American public.

Also, that Politifact article was hilarious. It even states that Hillary has had about 1000x as much negative ads and attacks against her than Bernie, but rates it as false because apparently Martin O'Malley (lol) ran a stupid ad against him that he probably couldn't even afford to get on the air. Weak sauce. They really should focus on the point of the matter rather than quibbling about small and irrelevant details.

Oh, and that some guy in Vermont ran ads against him. If only Vermont could be extrapolated to the entire country, Democrats would never lose an election ever again! (unless it was to a left wing third party)

[RightBehind]

Hillary admittedly has a point. She's been the subject of attacks from the national GOP and conservative groups for almost 25 straight years without cease. Bernie has had a few afterthought swipes from commentators and candidates about being an avowed socialist. There woud be tremendous opportunity, material and resources to drive his negatives way up if the GOP needed to, but it knows it won't.

All it would take is a few months of truth telling and education on socialism  and Sanders would be McGovern 2.0

Hes 74 years old and never had a chance in hell to beat Hillary . 

We've somehow convinced people that socialism for the poor and middle class is a terrible thing whilst not blinking an eye for the socialism recipients that are the wealthy.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Clinton herself was polling better than Obama after it was obvious that she lost the nomination in 2008 and Republicans stopped attacking her.

No

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_United_States_presidential_election,_2008#Democratic_nominee_vs._Republican_nominee_2

The final two polls in that link both show her doing better. And that also overlaps with the mid May/late May/early June state polls I linked to that showed her doing better.

Sorry jfern, she was objectively polling better in the final few weeks of the race.

That's some serious cherry-picking. The last 2 have her doing 1 and 4 points better. The previous 2 have Obama doing 9 and 6 points better. The average of the May polls was a slight Obama advantage.

Dude, you actually have to look at the field dates. Maybe Obama was doing better in early May, who cares? My point is that she was objectively doing better in mid to late May and early June, as the totality of the sparse national polls (and the much more abundant state polls) showed.

It really varied poll to poll who did better. It's really dishonest to claim that there was much difference once averaged.

Okay, I guess I have to do this...

Let's look at polls conducted in the final 2 weeks of the race, and who performed better. The only two national polls had her doing 4 points and 1 point better, but there was an abundance of state polls during this time.

State polls:
ME: Tie
NY: C+1
OH: C+8
CO: O+9
FL: C+16
MO: C+5
NC: C+14
UT: O+10
VA: O+1
CA: C+5
FL: C+11
NV: C+11
OH: C+11
PA: C+7
MS: O+4
CT: O+14
NH: C+5
PA: C+9
AZ: O+4
CA: O+4
NE: O+2
NV: C+10
MT: O+3
MN: Tie
KY: C+34
MS: O+4
CA: Tie
NY: C+11
WA: O+1
LA: C+2
MA: C+17
CT: C+3


Here it is in map form:

Looks pretty decisive to me. The person performing far better in Florida, Ohio, Missouri, Pennsylvania, Nevada, New Hampshire, and North Carolina vs. the person performing far better in Colorado and a hair better in Virginia. Hmm...who was more electable?!

Were there really that many state polls in 2 weeks? Or were those the latest poll, even if it was from a year before?

[IceSpear]

Were there really that many state polls in 2 weeks? Or were those the latest poll, even if it was from a year before?

Yep, they were all within 2 weeks. Polls were a lot more frequent back in 2008, for whatever reason. If you scroll along hitting "next report" from May 20th until June 3rd, you'll see all the polls I used.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/May20.html
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/May20.html

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Clinton herself was polling better than Obama after it was obvious that she lost the nomination in 2008 and Republicans stopped attacking her.

No

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_United_States_presidential_election,_2008#Democratic_nominee_vs._Republican_nominee_2

The final two polls in that link both show her doing better. And that also overlaps with the mid May/late May/early June state polls I linked to that showed her doing better.

Sorry jfern, she was objectively polling better in the final few weeks of the race.

That's some serious cherry-picking. The last 2 have her doing 1 and 4 points better. The previous 2 have Obama doing 9 and 6 points better. The average of the May polls was a slight Obama advantage.

Dude, you actually have to look at the field dates. Maybe Obama was doing better in early May, who cares? My point is that she was objectively doing better in mid to late May and early June, as the totality of the sparse national polls (and the much more abundant state polls) showed.

It really varied poll to poll who did better. It's really dishonest to claim that there was much difference once averaged.

Okay, I guess I have to do this...

Let's look at polls conducted in the final 2 weeks of the race, and who performed better. The only two national polls had her doing 4 points and 1 point better, but there was an abundance of state polls during this time.

State polls:
ME: Tie
NY: C+1
OH: C+8
CO: O+9
FL: C+16
MO: C+5
NC: C+14
UT: O+10
VA: O+1
CA: C+5
FL: C+11
NV: C+11
OH: C+11
PA: C+7
MS: O+4
CT: O+14
NH: C+5
PA: C+9
AZ: O+4
CA: O+4
NE: O+2
NV: C+10
MT: O+3
MN: Tie
KY: C+34
MS: O+4
CA: Tie
NY: C+11
WA: O+1
LA: C+2
MA: C+17
CT: C+3


Here it is in map form:

Looks pretty decisive to me. The person performing far better in Florida, Ohio, Missouri, Pennsylvania, Nevada, New Hampshire, and North Carolina vs. the person performing far better in Colorado and a hair better in Virginia. Hmm...who was more electable?!

Were there really that many state polls in 2 weeks? Or were those the latest poll, even if it was from a year before?

The most recent Connecticut was March and Louisiana was April. The most recent NC poll had McCain up 3 over both of them. I'm sure I can find many more issues with those numbers.

One thing to note about those Electoral Vote maps. McCain has 190 weak or strong against Hillary but only 175 against Obama. There were a ridiculous amount of barely GOP states for Obama, and he won all of them except SC.

[IceSpear]

I don't know what your source is. They're all listed here if you scroll down:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/Jun03.html
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/Jun03.html

Here is corroboration on the Connecticut poll in late May. It had Obama up 3 and Clinton up 6, thus the C+3 in my list. On second look though, I actually accidentally used the Quinnipiac poll from March as well, so CT should've been red on the map rather than green.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/ct/connecticut_mccain_vs_clinton-526.html
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/ct/connecticut_mccain_vs_obama-527.html